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2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river 2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river

01-13-2020 , 07:32 PM
Bellagio 9-handed 2/5 table. Effective stack is $550. Villian covers with a big stack.
Villian is an Indian guy in his 40s. He plays lots of hands preflop mixed with limps and raises. Not much aggressive bluffing moves postflop. Hero has a clean nitty image.

Two ep limpers, hero raises to $25 with Kd Qd from MP, HJ calls, Villian on BT calls, one limper calls.

Flop($100): Td 9d 3s. Hero bets $60, only villian calls.

Turn($220): 4c. Hero bets $120, villian calls.

River($460): 3c. Hero?
Do we check/give up or empty chips and shove, hoping villian folds his whole capped range? This river card is not that good for our range and we block his folding range obviously.
2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river Quote
01-13-2020 , 07:58 PM
I think you have to give up on the river here.

Probably my least favorite combo to triple here.
2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river Quote
01-13-2020 , 08:08 PM
Idk, I think there are many arguments for triple barreling here.

1) folding out AdXd is fantastic
2) denying missed SDs and smaller FDs a chance to bluff (we can’t call a river bet here)
3) we can rep TT-AA which could believably triple barrel on this run out
4) his value range is capped at one pair and he could fold Tx

All of this may compensate for a sticky Tx that looks us up.

Also - I would have considered c/r flop
2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river Quote
01-13-2020 , 09:16 PM
Positives: what the fat man said above. Also, all draws have bricked.

Negatives: if I mathed correctly, we have only 345 behind so we’re going to offer 5-2 on a call if we jam. He could have Ad3d heaven forbid. His Tx can make a sticky call. But he has plenty of crap he can fold with a capped range as Fatman observes.

My main problem with our line is that we offer pretty good river odds. Had we checked flop, we could have delayed cbet some runouts and jammed offering even money. I suppose we have to go with it but it’s a gross spot.
2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river Quote
01-13-2020 , 09:53 PM
Our nitty image helps our cause too.
2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river Quote
01-13-2020 , 11:46 PM
Probably overbluffing a lot if we jam this combo. If anything CRAI is better line. K high is actually good some of the time here. You'd be bluffing with the best hand sometimes. Yeah you get Adxd to fold, but for me it's not worth it. You block alot of his folding range and stuff you want him to have like QJ.
2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river Quote
01-13-2020 , 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
Probably overbluffing a lot if we jam this combo. If anything CRAI is better line. K high is actually good some of the time here. You'd be bluffing with the best hand sometimes. Yeah you get Adxd to fold, but for me it's not worth it. You block alot of his folding range and stuff you want him to have like QJ.
If you are c/f then we benefit more from betting and having him fold when he has worse hands.
2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river Quote
01-14-2020 , 12:09 AM
That doesn't make any sense. If he has worse hands you're better off check calling.
2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river Quote
01-14-2020 , 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
Probably overbluffing a lot if we jam this combo. If anything CRAI is better line. K high is actually good some of the time here. You'd be bluffing with the best hand sometimes. Yeah you get Adxd to fold, but for me it's not worth it. You block alot of his folding range and stuff you want him to have like QJ.
+1

We can have all of the low connectors (8-5) to balance out our value. Shouldn't be bluffing this river too much.
2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river Quote
01-14-2020 , 02:04 AM
c/c flop OOP 4 ways. What are we planning to do facing a raise?
2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river Quote
01-14-2020 , 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
That doesn't make any sense. If he has worse hands you're better off check calling.
It does make sense but perhaps I didn’t articulate it well. I didn’t entertain c/c river with K-high given that the most likely missed draw he turns into a bluff is AdXd. So given that, when he has worse bluffs, it is better for hero to bluff with the best hand than fold the best hand.

Last edited by fatmanonguitar; 01-14-2020 at 07:53 AM.
2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river Quote
01-14-2020 , 08:27 AM
River card is fantastic for our range because our overpairs turn into two pair.

2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river Quote
01-14-2020 , 11:27 AM
Would a flop crai make more sense in this spot vs betting? Would set up well for a turn jam given stack sizes and if it happened to get checked through 4 way, it wouldn’t be terrible.
2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river Quote
01-14-2020 , 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steckyyyy
Would a flop crai make more sense in this spot vs betting? Would set up well for a turn jam given stack sizes and if it happened to get checked through 4 way, it wouldn’t be terrible.
This line from pfr always smells like drawing hands. Do you check/raise with overpairs in 4 way pot on wetty flop?
2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river Quote
01-14-2020 , 06:51 PM
I like betting flop a bit smaller here ($45-50), then following up much larger on the turn when heads up ($160-180). This should allow V to continue the flop with weaker holdings that might fold to increased turn pressure.

River is tough, but I think you should bluff here unless you really think V is a complete and utter station who doesn't care about money. In these spots I often find the V has something fairly weak like Q9s, T8s, 66-88, JTo, etc. and versus most players you can get away with an all in bluff and they will fold these weak hands.

V is almost completely capped here to one pair holdings at best, except for the unlikely 3dXd hands. With the multiway flop, V is highly likely to be raising all 2 pair+ hands, some AT hands, and some nut diamond hands.

You could also just bet $275-300 with the same effect as a shove and it might look stronger. Bonus points if you put on your jacket, say "well, I guess it's time to go", then shove all in.
2/5 KQs combo draw  whiffed on blank river Quote

      
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