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Originally Posted by bwslim69
Without any reads we are completely guessing. Generally folding KK pre is a mistake but against the right opponent in the right spot it is a trivial fold.
More info needed
Villain is in his early-mid thirties, wearing a checkered shirt. Put together and not disheveled.
His game has mostly consisted of limping somewhere around 55-60% and raising 15-20% of hands. I think I have a read in that he raises his bigger hands to 20-25 and his more speculative ones to 15.
He spend a good portion of the night trying to steal pots with probing bets, bluffs and outright semibluffs with not enough FE in my view.
In other words, somewhat thinking but with a ton of leaks, especially preflop, like most live players.
However, up to that point I don't think I ve seen him 3 bet. I think he either called with Aces from the blinds or raised limpers. He then proceeded to spew a good percentage of his stack against a hyper loose asian middle aged fish on a very wet board.
After our hand, he 3-bet JJ from the B again with a similar bet size.
As for myself, I am far more aggressive, running around 30-14, open raising and raising limpers a lot and having shown both good and more marginal hands. I have won a couple of big pots, but I have also been seen bluffing a couple of times.
That's my first 4 bet. I was 3-bet by what I ve seen so far to be an ABC grinder (running 20/8 or so, only showing premium and semipremium hands on his raised hands) while holding AKs and AKo and refrained from sticking it because I thought my AK was behind his 3bet range.
I think that subconsciously played into my action here, because I was somewhat frustrated by having to play AK OOP and not stick it in there with a good hand.
But this is what I was trying to say before. Without a shadow of a doubt, there are some donkeys who will shove pretty wide even with 40-50BB. However, the 3-bet range of most players who have a basic grasp of poker at this level is extremely tight, so even AK and JJ are not good enough for 4 bets.
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Is B capable, based upon your reads, of 4 bet shoving with QQ or AK or even KK? Or would they just call with those hands?
The truth of the matter is that I don't have enough of a sample to have any kind of a reliable read.
My sixth sense tells me that he's got AA, but all the same, my instinct told me to commit with KK.
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Also, your bet sizing is off. When B makes it 85, you know they have a hand, 3 bet ranges at this level for non thinking players are very narrow. Bs range from 3 betting the 20 is AA, AK, KK, QQ, so what are you trying to accomplish by 4 betting here? First, you want QQ and AK to call, because you're way ahead, and you want AA to 5 bet, and you want KK to fold lol.
So what's a good bet sizing to get AK and QQ to still call, but at the same time not lose too much when AA 5 bets and we decide to fold? I think a better bet size for you after B makes it 85, is to make it 185-200. When you bet 250, you're turning your hand face up...250 would be a good bet as a bluff here, but not with KK.
My 3 bet sizing is around 2.75x the bet when in position and around 3.1-3.2x when OOP so as to deter calls IP while charging for the disadvantage I will have post flop.
I haven't thought about how the B reads my 3 bet, I think the act of 4 betting comes as insanely strong regardless if it is 250 or 220 or 195.