2/5 with max 300 BI and max 500 bet (spread limit)

Hero (BTN) is a MAWG (40's), business man look. Been drinking tonight, but only to the point to more chatty and possibly moving from TAG to LAG. Known winner at this casino. Did open BTN to 45 with 42o with two <200 stacks in blinds. BB shoved for 130. H called and flopped a 2, but V's AJo hit the four flush. Table loved it. Hero also raised big on turn with QT on TXXQ board and got paid off. Stack: 1700.

V (UTG+1), TAG Indian male, 30's. Second most aggressive at table after Hero. Seldom limps pre, like H. H and V have played together 10ish times. Tend to treat each other with respect, but also know the other has a fold button. V got moved to this table with a 2200 stack.

UTG limps
V limps
2 limps
H (1700) raises to 25 with K9

It's a good multiway hand, so maybe H should limp, but it's also got good high card potential, kinda think this could go either way.

6 callers including V

Flop (175) A84
Checks to H
Would you bet here?

H bets 125.
Folds to V who raises thinks a coupla seconds and raises to 325
What would you do here?

H ponders and raises to 825.

You're repping 9s8s-6s5s?

Love it. Methinks u have him crushed.

Flop is a must bet, need to build the pot.

As for now...

Whats his UTG+1 overlimp range? He's aggressive you say, so its probably pretty narrow. Likely he raises 88, 44 is possible. What about Axs and SC's? Does he ever try to limp/rr with AA?

V did not ll/reraise pre. Given that 3 people in front of him called, I would safely remove AA from his range if he is a TAG.

He can have 44, 88 or A8s maybe?

What's your plan if you get called on the flop? Jam any non-ace turns?

Yeah never mind the l/rr AA obv

Huh? We're bluffing, not trying to build a pot...

If he calls and checks the turn I would just take a free river. No way he puts in half his stack on the flop and folds the turn. You also have some SDV against the draws in his range. A8s and 88 would never fold anyway. Maybe 44 but that seems hopeful.

IWith so many callers after the flop I don't know how feel about betting. I understand that we have lots of equity but that's only if we see the river. I think the sizing was decent but I don't ever expect everyone To fold which is sort of why I don't like betting. A ruff estimation of other villans stack sizes would be nice but me thinks checking flop is ok too.

As for your flop raise what exactly are you representing? You are of course representing the nuts AA and 88 but you are also only report mostly 1 pair hands like AK which I doubt you play like this. I think your 3 bet has no fold equity what so ever with that sizing. I would rather call getting better than 3/1 and see what he does on the turn. It will be very difficult for him to bluff turn. If I am bet into again and I don't connect I am likely folding but what do I know. I just don't like making a habit out of semi bluffing check raises in multi way pots in live low stakes NL.

Well the draws he is representing or discounted because she have the K and 9 of spades. Also I don't really get the relevance of the limp rr comment. If he was going to limp rr he would of don't that pre flop so I'd be willin to bet villan has AA around 0% of the time.

Villans is relling 2 paius and big draws. Big draws are discounted and so are a few of the 2 pair combos. It seems like we are up against a very strong hand here pretty often and we don't have fold equity. We are losing vs that entire range including the 8x flush draws.

Considering we block the nut flush draw I would expect him to have 88 or 44 >90% of the time (I'm guessing 44). You raised pre OTB and are throwing out a big bet on the flop repping AK.

He's raising to $325 because he is not putting you on the flush draw and is trying to commit you with an easy $500 bet on the turn (into an $825 pot) followed by a $850 (all-in) bet on the river into an $1825 pot.

Me thinks he shoved over the top of you and you called because "lol gamble getting 3:1" and binked a flush on the turn and scooped the pot.

Edit:* Just saw max bet of $500 ... wtf..

Yes, and sets, and KXss, not sure if V knows A8 is in my range. Might even do this with AK.

Thank you.

UTG+1 overlimping range? SC's, pairs 99? and lower, maybe suited A8 and lower. Maybe suited broadways. Hard to tell.


Def 44 and 88 in his range. Plan was to bet any turn if called. I can see an arg for not betting an ace, but I like betting an ace as well. V should be folding Ax hands otf, so the only hands we're afraid of on and ace turn are sets that boated up. We're going broke to those on non-board-pairing, non-spade turns anyway, so why not just bet them, and take advantage of the fold equity?

Good points, and especially this.

The other stacks are all 150-500, mostly right round 3-400.

Not sure why big draws are discounted. He is selling those and big hands, much like H is. The more I think about it, the more I think this is mostly a leveling war or a live read question, which is hard to comment on when you weren't there. But I'm still not sure, or is there a better play?

>90% of the time is way off imho, lot's of draws still possible, but maybe I'm not understanding why they are discounted. Also, V can see H as stealing IP OTF, so can raise to re-steal.

Agree that max bet is wtf.

I prefer flatting to 3! OTF. To me it seems like Vs range is very, very heavily skewed towards sets in this spot. If V is a solid tag its very unlikely for him to have a combo draw, as he shouldn't be l/c 5s6s or 6s7s from UTG +1. Even if he is, that's only 2 combos he could realistically have. Same reasoning goes for 2p hands, doesn't seem like he should ever be showing up with A8s or A4s here. Its also very unlikely V is making a move here, with 3 other players still left to act OTF and a board that hits your perceived range.

Even if we give V a healthy spazz factor (10% ?) and a few 2p combos that he r/f for value on the flop, hero really doesn't have much FE in this spot. I also think you have really good IO to draw to the nuts here, as your range should be perceived to have more AX type hands than flush draws by V.

Title asks for a spew rating, so, idk spew factor is maybe like... 7ish/10

Betting the flop into 6 players is terrible here.

1) You take the free card.
2) You're not getting 6 players to fold this board ever.
3) Villains are not going to properly charge you on the turn most likely

I'd definitely take the free card. If a spade hits the turn, not many people will put you on the flush, so that's another advantage of checking. And indeed, chances are you will be getting direct odds to chase your flush in case you miss the turn and someone decides to bet. 7way it'll often be some lol_amount...

I also like overlimping more when the table is this sticky.

Are you ever getting any value here? QJ of spades?
Do you have any fold equity? 86 of spades, 87 of spades? A random AJ, AT maybe?

It seems to me the timing is off; it's super easy for you to call with position and most turns will be easy to play. You're not making the flop any more difficult for him to play, really. I don't think you're making the turn any more difficult for him either.

Many jurisdictions have outlawed "no limit poker," probably in the belief that they are protecting the players from financial ruin. It wouldn't surprise me if that was a caveat of a Congressional reconsideration of the matter in the USA.

Lol at getting value. Hero has no value yet.

Did you bother to read what I wrote? It's in black and white.

Check flop. There is no reason to bet this flop with no fold equity and we have 0 against 6 people.

Pre flop: I prefer over limping here. So many have called, and K9s has more value playing small ball pre flop than raising it.
If you do choose to raise, clearly, $25 is too small with the limpers already in the pot. $50 might have been the better number.
Also, I don't mind checking flop. So many players called preflop, a bet has no chance of taking it down. Free cards are fun, when we need them. And here, we could use one.
As played, you bet, got raised. You can call and see a turn with decent odds. That works. I think your raise is interesting and maybe better than a flat with how the hand is shaping up.
Don't know if your read on V is that he can fold an A.
But, nut draw, two cards to come, your play is aggressive and high variance.
And, don't kid yourself about 'just a couple of beers, but that just makes me a LAG not a TAG.'
You opened w 42 and called a shove with it. You're steaming chips in with draws. Couple of beers is amping up your aggression here, I think.

Raise pre is fine, but lol @ betting this flop.

I dunno. Some have Kx in their button range, others say it is unplayable. If you look at a table of relative hand values, K9s isn't that bad but any way you look it it, it's near the bottom of anybody's playable range. That calls for a raise imo unless this is one of those tables where you get six callers no matter what you bet, in which case, I don't know that it's worth playing. I go back and forth on this but I'm kind of hating Kxs these days.


Yeah where I play, that's a brain-dead autocall for most villains, local conditions may vary

Long as the collar matches the cuffs. Those who raise pre should be generally disposed to bet flop, except things didn't go as planned; as things turned out it's kind of throwing money away

No kidding, although if I'm really there to play my best game, I don't engage the good players in leveling wars. But, when you're up to your fanny in alligators, it's hard to remember your original task was to drain the swamp eh

Careful about putting your style on V: "shouldn't."
I think spazz factor is much higher. If V sees H as stealing, V can do this with practically his whole range.
Thanks for the rating. You may be right. Still not sure H played flop well.

But it's a good board to get them to fold ott or barrel. When I bet flop, I could be cbetting, but when I bet turn, people often fold, cuz no-one in LLSNL barrels enough. But I get what you're saying. I am open to "take the free card" being the best play.

Not sure about bolded. 7 handed, people don't pay off flushes much, imho.
By the way, this V bets big (1/2 to full pot, expect most likely 3/4th pot ott if H called flop).

I don't understand bolded part. I think 3betting flop made it much more difficult for V to play the flop.

True. But to be fair, BadlyBeaten did mention QJs, which is in V's range, but obviously, value is not the goal in this hand.

I hear ya.

Yes to bolded. I think I said that in the OP.
Anyway, def counting on V being a thinking player who can bet/fold, or in this case, C/R/fold.
Point taken re drinking. Agree it could be clouding my judgment, but see results, (lolsamplesize).

No, you get off MY lawn.

Interesting Kxs analysis. I like K9s, KTs multiway and with 2-3 to the flop. Was trying for fewer, but obviously that didn't work pre.
Was def a leveling war. Maybe not a good thread, because of that (history and "game flow" too important.

Results: V folded.

Thanks all. Appreciate that discussion. Any more thoughts.

Just curious what would you do with 6 limp, callers in this spot?
Not trying to be funny, I've found myself in this spot a few times.
Let's say OP has AKo or AQo in this spot, still checking?
Yes, I agree V either has 2pr or a set.
I think I fold...live I probably call and spew off chips.