There are a lot of things we can do to piss off thinking maniac with a medium/deepstack. Although shortstacking provides the greatest return at the least risk, there are plenty of other things we can do with a medium stack. Here is WBN's guide to beating KneedUrDough;

1. If we are stuck on his right, we can tighten our range to like JJ+/AQ+ and limp/raise everything. Be prepared to get it in after a 4bet because thinking maniacs know your line doesn't make sense if you're like the 5th limper in and you're limp/raising so some might try to take the pot away still.
2. Pretend you're a maniac. Maniacs cannot bluff other maniacs. You can do this by 3betting him light with total garbage, playing a hand really bad in a small pot and showing it down,
3. Pretend you're a calling station. Maniacs can't bluff calling stations either. If there's a supernit at the table and there's a spot in a small pot where it's obvious he has it, call anyway and show your hand.
4. If you're on the maniac's left, 3bet him a lot in his LP opens on the HJ/CO when you have position. Float him on a lot of flops. Thinking maniacs can't play well OOP on multiple streets, that's why they play so many hands in the last 3 spots.
5. Take really creative lines. Thinking maniacs are really used to people trying to bluff them, so they usually stack off a bit lighter if your line doesn't make sense and they have a strong hand. If you think maniac actually picked something up and you have a monster, think of a drawing hand in your range and play it as such, then find a spot where you could conceivably bluff your draw and fire.

Things you should avoid AT ALL COSTS!
1. Most people are really stupid and decide, "I'm not gonna let this guy run over me any more. Here's KJ that I limped with, time to take a stand! I'm gonna....CALL!" Don't call OOP against a maniac, it's handing them free money. You're not going to beat a maniac by trying to increase the hands you play because you're winning all the money at SD, they're winning all the money that doesn't go to SD, and most hands don't go to SD. OOP, we are never calling with marginal hands hoping to hit flops.
2. Don't bother defending your blinds. See above


Sound about right, KUD?

Problem with posting hands with 'live' reads is that for the most part the math never adds up and even though u were right at the time u tend to be made to feel like a douche.

good advice...

u could also add,

always try to get the last bet in. if ur both playing weak hands whoever gets the last bet in usually wins

don't try and hit a flop because, as u know, u miss most flops

if ur not willing to get ur stack in, ask for a table change

let the maniac do the betting when u do have a big hand (check-raises work great.)

isolate them when u can and 3bet them when they are attacking limpers;also, don't hesitate to squeeze the squeezer (when it's obvious.)

push ur draws, don't try to hit them as u'll never see the river if u don't hit on the turn

don't let urself get tilted

Calling here would be completely and utterly terrible, we're in a raised pot with SIX players and the board has two Broadway cards and a two-flush, we cannot let people draw cheaply. Raise the flop.

I like your logic and reasoning, but I have to disagree with it. The reason why a raise is good here is because there are so many draws and hands that you want to get value from on this board - that will call a re-raise/possibly cold-call it. With a set, we want to stack someone - so the key is to get money in as soon as possible.

Now the key point is - there are so many action killers on the turn - namely hearts. There's an 18% chance that a heart comes on the turn and only 4% chance that the ten pairs. The king pairing is meaningless since most likely someone calls your re-raise with top pair - but even with the king - only 8%. So, instead of reeling in more players - who will not really go further on the turn with significant improvement (4 to 10% at best) and such improvement may make your hand be 2nd best - why not try to stack the guy who actually has a hand right now? I think there's a significantly better chance of this over the long run than to hope someone hits a cooler.

Always wondered how u got 4K+ posts

EDIT:

TY, WBN. I appreciate the post, and I agree with most of it. I will try to post some substance later. For now, a lame attempt at comedy:

This sounds like my natural style. Am I a maniacallingstation?

Take this attitude to online forums, please. Online play requires an analytical approach, but live is much more empiracle. There are no huds, and you can't log onto a website and find out how well a given villain plays.

This situation is very, very complicated to actually know what the perfect thing to do is. I like to take a creative approach sometimes - this is one of those times. I'm combining several factors into my decision:

• The probability that one of the players behind us will try to attack the dead $$$ and weakness of EP's bet and our weak call. How is our hand rep'd to a thinking player behind on a wet board here? I think we're repping perhaps a flush draw, AQ, scared aces, maybe QQ/JJ. I'm not sure $40 into $180 is enuff to get us off any of those hands.
• The probability that no one likely has a flush draw here. 5 other hands to the flop does not, by any means, guarantee a flush draw. I would argue it's around a 35% chance someone flopped a flush draw. I'm not too worried about a gutty. I do realize that even if no one has a flush and a heart shows up, it can be bad but we're also pretty likely to get to showdown too because everyone hates it. I think we at least get 2 cards for $40 to fill up if a heart comes and no one has it.
• The probability that even if someone has a draw, it's more likely for us to get a good card OTT than not.
• Lulling someone with AK (unlikely, but possible) KQ, KJ, K10 into thinking they've got the best hand and they have to bet big on the turn if a non-scare card hits
• Willingness to lose $70 and fold if a scare card does come, risking this 70$ to try to double up thru someone making trips or just enticing a big mistake thru slow playing. Keep in mind, doubling up doesn't mean we have to get all-in here, 1 player OTT committing $150 would just about do it after 3 calls for $40 ($120) and $180 in PF.

We are new to the table and we don't know if anyone is going to stack off with 1 pair. How often do you see a stack off in a live game for 90BBs+ with KQ in a 6 way pot? Even AK here can sometimes find a fold. I just don't get the feeling anyone here has a stacking-off hand. Really TT, KK, KT, QhJh are it. If KT is behind us after we smooth, it's probably going in regardless of a raise or not.

Clearly raising is a +EV play and "standard". I just don't know if it's the best +EV play to play for stacks here and I think that the 1-2 times a day (if that) that you hit a set, you want to induce a mistake for stacks. Raising OTF is probably not the line to do that in this particular spot.

I'm not saying this is THE answer, but I like this line over raising and exposing our hand since donk-bet EP guy screwed us by betting out.

Why is everyone assuming everyone will fold if OP raises? Guarantee you'll get at least 1 caller and probably stack him on the turn anyway.

95% of the responses advocate a raise...

...results have been posted

I generally post sooner, but I thought I'd let some discussion happen first. I have seen the results, but w/e.

My thoughts on this is that its a pretty easy raise OTF given board texture. Ok I get the idea of monsters under the bed, blah blah blah... The thing is there are 5 players who called you raise. Their combined range almost always includes SC's, SC Broadways, Boradways, PP's, 2P's, 1 big pair, Med. Pairs, and w/e else your heart desires (even though I think thats all of them). In this situation much of the time someone (or 2 or 3) is going to have a hand that they can continue with. This one time is rare. They are going to continue a gutters, OESD, FD's, double gutters (obv 2P's and TPTK). Not raising here and getting max value out of those hands is almost insane. We are not raising to chase out draws because we are scared of monsters, we are raising for value. We want to make it incorrect for weaker hands to draw and at the same time charging them to the max (ldo). No, a OESDFD is not going show up here everytime, but there are enough hands in the combined range that will continue and possible even start a dominoe effect. Like 95% of the thread said... raise. No need to get tricky here with bottom set on a wet board. If someone wants to continue with 56hh make them pay. I would hate for that same hand to get priced in cheaply because you flatted, spike their heart on the turn they shove and you have an even bigger problem... do we continue or fold?? There's so much money in the pot by then that we may get priced in to try and hit a boat and essentially stack ourselves. Let them make the mistake... not you. 2 cents.

I think the probability that someone will attack the dead money is pre, not OTF, especially after there has been a bet and a call. Most live players play a lot better pre (kind of) than they do OTF and in later streets. The later the street the worse they get. They like making all their moves before any cards come out. my 2 cents.

... AND THEN.. last night I play a 4 hour session with AcePlayer and he slow plays a set on a 10c 5c 3h board with 2 players putting in $$$ OTF before him and 2-3 players yet to act behind him. Hypocrite?

No, n+1 level thinker. Done just to tilt you.