2/5: Good spot to take a multi-way stab? - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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2/5: Good spot to take a multi-way stab?

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07-24-2019 , 10:30 AM

momo_uk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

LJ ABC whale ($250) opens $20,
BTN dolphin ($1500) calls,
SB tuna ($2000) calls,
Tight Hero ($1400) calls in BB with KQo.

Flop ($80): J84r
SB checks, H checks, OR checks, BTN checks

Turn ($80): 4cc
SB checks, Hero ?

With a pretty tight image and obviousness that nobody has TP+ now, is this an okay spot to take a stab for $50-60 which would look too strong into 3 ppl? If called, we can barrel a lot of rivers that don’t complete draws.

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07-24-2019 , 10:42 AM

thetruewheel

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 362

Seems fine. SB and BTN should have weak ranges, along with LJ who would probably bet flop with any piece. You can easily represent AJ-QJ. If we get more than 1 caller I'm giving up on river.

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07-24-2019 , 01:33 PM

tomdemaine

Just tries harder

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,065

I think you can stab for less especially if you're planning to barrel good rivers. Try 35 and see.

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07-24-2019 , 01:42 PM

Badreg2017

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,682

Stab seems solid. Would probably go for it if I had a club.

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07-24-2019 , 01:48 PM

SandFish

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 130

Never stab into 3 fish OOP you are literally lighting money on fire

An even bigger leak is not 3betting to $135

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07-24-2019 , 02:08 PM

Koko the munkey

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,387

I like 3-bet here preflop. Calling is just a little too weak here.

I'm not so sure about stabbing with 3 fish behind being a bad play. I've gotten it though enough times to make a profit, although I like flop stabs in position even more. Also a 2nd barrel is probably mandatory in any case.

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07-24-2019 , 02:47 PM

momo_uk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomdemaine

I think you can stab for less especially if you're planning to barrel good rivers. Try 35 and see.

What rivers do you consider good exactly?

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07-24-2019 , 02:50 PM

momo_uk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandFish

Never stab into 3 fish OOP you are literally lighting money on fire

An even bigger leak is not 3betting to $135

I used to think this way too but I’ve been bleeding money 3betting in these spots vs seemingly tight opens when they come from EP from someone who mostly limps every hand otherwise. The fish that opens $20 in EP rarely ever folds here with a $250 stack and KQo is pretty dominated vs his GII range.

I’m not saying I don’t like it, I’m just saying it’s not necessary to 3b these hands from the blinds every damn time.

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07-24-2019 , 03:13 PM

Tanqueray

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,693

It's a math question.

Even with zero equity hand:
-$50 just needs to work 38% of the times.
-$60 needs to work 43% of the times.
-$100 needs to work 56% of the times.

Assuming we have (6) outs or 13.7% and river goes check/check:
-$50 just needs to work 30% of the times, assuming V calls 62% of the times.
-$60 needs to work 35% of the times, assuming V calls 57% of the times.

Rest is about profiling.

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07-24-2019 , 05:11 PM

#10

megamen70

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 376

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

But you described us a whale villain with a LJ open not a tight player with a utg open. I'm squeezing all day here with the dead money from two callers

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07-24-2019 , 06:43 PM

#11

ionutd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 13,624

probe 4x, better tp and gutshots/oe/fds

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07-24-2019 , 10:16 PM

#12

momo_uk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by ionutd

probe 4x, better tp and gutshots/oe/fds

Why do our cards matter here lol?

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07-25-2019 , 06:19 AM

#13

venice10

Referee

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,882

Not sure what a dolphin is in your mind. Technically, dolphins aren't fish, though.

Would much rather 3 bet pf than call. You're oop. Unless he's raising over 25% of the total hands here, you're behind with what will be a RIO hand. If you can't raise him here, you're better off folding.

As for the turn, I think betting is around a neutral EV play. You lost more EV pf.

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07-25-2019 , 11:31 AM

#14

ionutd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 13,624

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

Why do our cards matter here lol?

because betting with any two cards is dumb

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07-25-2019 , 11:43 AM

#15

moxiepilot

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 359

I’m checking into that many opponents oop who might have been feeling out their pair. Who is coming along, everyone that Beas you or is floating as well.

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07-25-2019 , 12:21 PM

#16

SandFish

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 130

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

This isn't up for debate. Vs. a loose open and 3 fish calls, 3-betting with KQ isn't a matter of preference, it's a leak when you don't

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07-25-2019 , 01:04 PM

#17

ionutd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 13,624

define ABC whale

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07-25-2019 , 01:15 PM

#18

ashtona

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 150

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandFish

This isn't up for debate. Vs. a loose open and 3 fish calls, 3-betting with KQ isn't a matter of preference, it's a leak when you don't

I don't think KQo is a mandatory squeeze. Flatting to leave horrible players in the pot keeps their ranges wide and earns us more value when we flop top pair, which is almost always best.

I actually think it can be argued KQo is too profitable a call to be wasted as a 3bet bluff

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07-25-2019 , 01:19 PM

#19

XtraScratch8

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 3,579

I don’t know what any of this means.

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