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2/5 Good Spot to Fold Set OTR? 2/5 Good Spot to Fold Set OTR?

07-11-2014 , 08:01 AM
7pm at the Rio. Table is mix of young guys and a couple older guys. This is hero's first hand.

Villain is a white guy in his 60s wearing a plaid button up shirt. Bought for $500.

Hero is a white guy in his late 20s wearing a white t-shirt. Bought for $700.

Button straddles $10. SB folds, hero completes from BB with 5 5, V calls in EP, HJ calls, BTN checks. $37 in pot after drop.

Flop A 5 7. Hero leads $30, V calls, HJ calls, BTN folds. $127 in pot.

Turn A 5 7 T. Hero checks, V quickly bets $80, HJ folds, hero asks for a count and calls. $287 in pot.

River A 5 7 T K. Hero checks. V thinks for 4 seconds, picks up 7 red chips, places them on top of a $100 stack, and slides out a $135 bet. Hero ???

Getting a little better than 3:1 on a call. I feel like this is a spot where he has the flush really often. Two villains call OTF, an old man leads into HJ and myself for 2/3 pot OTT, and now seems to be making a milking bet OTR. I think the only value hand I beat is AT, and I think he thinks a little longer before betting the turn if he has that hand. Can I fold here?
2/5 Good Spot to Fold Set OTR? Quote
07-11-2014 , 08:13 AM
fold. you don´t have a read that he´s bluffy/valuebets way too thinly.
2/5 Good Spot to Fold Set OTR? Quote
07-11-2014 , 10:23 AM
Its a close spot. Call ~ fold. Since he can have A-up I call and expect to lose most of the time
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07-11-2014 , 10:35 AM
Not folding here
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07-11-2014 , 10:47 AM
Bet/fold the turn.

River is close leaning fold based on description. Any younger and any other color it's probably a call.
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07-11-2014 , 11:04 AM
Against unknowns I tend to play more straightforwardly until shown otherwise. I bet/fold turn or if he just flats turn c/f river.
2/5 Good Spot to Fold Set OTR? Quote
07-11-2014 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronk56
Bet/fold the turn.

River is close leaning fold based on description. Any younger and any other color it's probably a call.
Bet folding is bad in these spots because we have a 10 out redraw and on top of that its so unlikely for us to get three streets from worse. Check call all day. As played its really close, you need like 23% equity to call river. Does he really value bet aces up here? I'd prefer bet fold $150 on river since you can't improve now and you don't give him a chance to check back two pairs. If he calls with tptk type hands bet fold river is way better
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07-11-2014 , 12:48 PM
i'm over-raising on that flop hoping to get my money in w/ a set against AK. make it too expensive for a flush draw and win it w/ the best hand right there.

as is, call. you already decided he doesn't have the flush on the turn and the K isn't scary unless you think he's been on a straight draw the whole time.
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07-11-2014 , 12:56 PM
Well played, now fold. Don't think it's a thin VB w/ worse w/ half pot sizing.
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07-11-2014 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel Foley

Villain is a white guy in his 60s wearing a plaid button up shirt. Bought for $500.

Hero is a white guy in his late 20s wearing a white t-shirt. Bought for $700.
You guys spend a lot on clothes.
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07-11-2014 , 02:35 PM
I personally would have bet $100 on the river as a blocker bet. A raise would be nuts or a bluff.
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07-11-2014 , 02:38 PM
I can't believe people are folding this river to an unknown, especially since our hand is so underrepped. Villain could easily be value betting two-pair, since on the river it's obvious we don't have the flush.

This hand is a weak-tight mess.
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07-11-2014 , 04:38 PM
Where's the red tracksuit?

Snap call
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07-11-2014 , 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrChesspain
I can't believe people are folding this river to an unknown, especially since our hand is so underrepped. Villain could easily be value betting two-pair, since on the river it's obvious we don't have the flush.

This hand is a weak-tight mess.
I'm not saying this V never has two pair, but I don't think that happens super often. FD hits the turn and he immediately bets 2/3 pot into both me and the other player behind him; he has to know that other player has FDs in his range and that I can occasionally have a FD as well (maybe I lead big on flop w 64dd, 86dd, etc). I don't think he looks at AT and immediately bets 2/3 with confidence that he's ahead of both me and the other player. Also think he raises flop with the A7/A5 combos; think he might consider raising flop with AK on the flop as well (he smooth called flop).
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07-11-2014 , 05:17 PM
It's probably a fold but I hate folding sets so I would just call here. I would've bet the turn though. .
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07-11-2014 , 05:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball2
Where's the red tracksuit?

Snap call
In the wash.
2/5 Good Spot to Fold Set OTR? Quote
07-11-2014 , 05:29 PM
Check raise the flop.

As played meh. Probably a fold. Vegas games are nitty haha.
2/5 Good Spot to Fold Set OTR? Quote
07-11-2014 , 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
It's probably a fold but I hate folding sets so I would just call here. I would've bet the turn though. .
Are we betting something like $85 into $130? With our 23% redraw and a chance to get paid off on the river we have to b/c when V raises to $200ish on top....don't think he ever folds small flushes when we b/3b to rep higher flushes and effectively semi-bluff (don't think that story makes sense since we can gii OTR easy enough when we have Kxdd).

I felt like b/c was less attractive than x/c since our hand's relative value just plunged so much for getting called by Ax and I wanted to draw as cheaply as possible when one of the two Vs hits a flush.
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07-11-2014 , 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42
Check raise the flop.

As played meh. Probably a fold. Vegas games are nitty haha.
I think my biggest mistake in the session was not getting up and leaving the Rio when I saw the WSOP cash game tables had dwindled from. 80 to less than 20 by day 4 of the ME. Table was ok but better games were probably available elsewhere.
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07-11-2014 , 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel Foley
Are we betting something like $85 into $130? With our 23% redraw and a chance to get paid off on the river we have to b/c when V raises to $200ish on top....don't think he ever folds small flushes when we b/3b to rep higher flushes and effectively semi-bluff (don't think that story makes sense since we can gii OTR easy enough when we have Kxdd).

I felt like b/c was less attractive than x/c since our hand's relative value just plunged so much for getting called by Ax and I wanted to draw as cheaply as possible when one of the two Vs hits a flush.
If he raises $200 then I might fold since he only has $500, but then he definitely has a flush. Both of their ranges have a lot of Ax so I'm just not folding for $135 on the river...people do all sorts of stupid stuff, so I'd say he you're gonna win about half the time here. Ad and Td being on board reduces a lot of his FD combos.
2/5 Good Spot to Fold Set OTR? Quote
07-11-2014 , 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
Both of their ranges have a lot of Ax so I'm just not folding for $135 on the river...people do all sorts of stupid stuff, so I'd say he you're gonna win about half the time here. Ad and Td being on board reduces a lot of his FD combos.
This is the really interesting part to me that I want to look at more when I get home. How many 2pr combos can I realistically give him (ie pretty low confidence in the 12 combos of A5/A7, medium confidence in the 9 combos of AT, somewhat low (33%?) in AK since I see that hand at least considering a flop raise and probably thinking about a check OTT since the third player may have just hit a flush or AT). Other controversial part is how many FD combos he limps from his position. Do we include hands like K9s, Q9s, 64s, etc. Do we end up with three times as many flush combos as 2pr combos?
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07-11-2014 , 08:09 PM
Betting the turn is awful.
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07-12-2014 , 02:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball2
Where's the red tracksuit?

Snap call
Quote = Axel Foley;] In the wash


Hahahaha this is some funny ****
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