My friend and former backer played this hand recently and asked me about it. I think it is terrible every step of the way --- every action should be a fold imo. I think he (finally) conceded that it should have been a fold pre, but he still doesn't agree that the flop line is just lol-terrible. My friend is a much better player than I am (this hand is not representative of his game, and I'm actually a little shocked we had this conversation). He knows that he is a better player than me in general and I think that might be part of the reason he isn't believing me when I tell him that it's just bad bad bad.

BUT, as I said, he is in fact better than me, and now I'm leveling myself wondering if the hand as played isn't as bad as my initial reaction. I also haven't played in 6 or 7 months so my confidence on my opinion here is down a bit.

I'm not trying to win an argument here but I'd like some confirmation that my analysis is on. And if I'm wrong about this being bad at every step then I'd definitely like to hear why.

(edit-- only player info he provided was "button is average joe")

Live 2/5

Hero in the SB with A7o

Straddle is on ($10)

6 callers. Hero completes. BB completes. Straddle checks.

Flop: A73 rainbow

Hero checks. BB checks. Straddle bets $50. UTG+2 calls. Button raises to $140.

Hero raises to $275. Folds to button, button all in for ~900.

Hero folds.

reads are hugely important post flop. Kinda pointless discussing this hand with no reads on villains.

I agree preflop is a fold.

Bad preflop.

Bad flop check. check 3 betting is just a result of the bad check. It's a super dry board so the only things callingthis show of strength are sets and A3.

Not sure how much he had left after bet but folding seems obvious.

Yes, he played bad.

I mean is he putting him on exactly 33?

Lead the flop all day.

A7o is not a hand you want to play in a multi-way pot out of position. Depending on table dynamics I usually wont even complete a sb even without the straddle. Also need to lead out on the flop.

I think you are the better player here, this is pretty basic stuff.

So everyone seems to agree that pre is a definite fold.

Once he's in the situation, do you think he should lead the flop as bwslim69 says?

Or suppose he checks on the flop. After the bet-call-raise, would you agree it is a fold? I can't imagine calling here, being out of position and the action still being open. And raising ended in disaster in real life.

Yes, exactly! I couldn't believe he called.

Yes its very badly played

How is this a fold pre. You are getting just under 10-1 ... Seems absurd to fold anything decent in this spot. As for the flop I think I lead, I usually hate leading, but with no pre flop aggressor I think a lead is fine.

Because it's a weak Ace out of position in a multi-way pot? I feel like it is a pretty standard fold.

preflop is fine, you guys are so nitty its hilarious. lead flop call shove. give me my moneys

preflop is far from fine


because we dont have anything decent. we have dog crap

we need to win the hand 10% of the time to make it a call. bad fold

What range are you putting the villain on (specifically, what range you can beat) that you're this confident in calling off your stack? I agree that we're beating bottom of villain's range but the action would seem to put the villain closer to the top of his range.

And of course, 2 players yet to act behind.

did you read the OP? there are 9 players to the flop. We don't have enough equity.

Just about every poster I respect will tell you to fold preflop. Almost every one. And they're all big winners. Correlation? I'd say so.

big winners at live poker? dont make me laugh please

FOLD PRE

Not sure I understand what you're saying?

Are you saying you think live poker is not beatable for a big winrate?

Fold pre, yes. However I don't see a problem checking the flop as someone is likely to bet.. in a 6 way pot, people can't help themselves with any A, or aggressive V's. As played 33 and unlikely 77 are the only hands I'm worried about.. pretty tough decision I don't think btn has anything BUT 77 or 33 here without specific reads as he probably raises AJ+ pre so I think I find a fold here on the flop. Not a fan of the raise either.

Stack sizes matter here.

I'd argue this is a very simplistic and incorrect way to think about our hand given it has high reverse implied odds (even in a limped pot) AND that are going to be OOP vs a large field.

Fold Pre.

Lead flop don't check raise. Check raising if folding out everything you beat, except maybe a3. Leading your getting calls from most A's.

we beat 73 and A3 which = 12 combos, we lose to 5 combos. easy call.
also preflop action makes AA very unlikely so we can discount it.

A3 = 6 combos

73= 6 combos


AA = 1 combo
77 = 1 combo
33 = 3 combos

I'd argue the exact opposite. Aces are discounted since there was no raise preflop and we dominate all 7's.

not at all. its beatable for a bigger winrate but its very slow so being a big winner is akin to being a big winner at micro/small stakes online