How is trapping with bottom two in this spot not a good idea?

Would love to hear it.

You mean beyond what I've already explained in my novel above?

Cliffs: trapping with bottom 2 on a drawy flop when villain's value range is capped AND/OR air range is capped with one psb remaining is aids.

Like, if he has AQo he's never firing the third barrel otr. Especially on the half of the deck that hits our perceived range.

If he has AK+, he's likely* not folding to a turn jam. He will hum and haw and say "you have flush draw?" and finally call.

And the way he's played it would weight his range more to value.

So his value range isn't folding and his air range is not jamming river unimproved.

When those conditions meet we don't trap. Especially with bottom two which is a very vulnerable hand that most players greatly overvalue anyways.

*IF we flat turn it is bc we think there is more value in flatting turn & open jamming non rivers, because his value bluff catch range should widen with that FOS line (KJ/KQ maybe even KT)

fold pre ldo

i am a fan of raptor betting the river vs aggro opponents (on blanks)

How are you ranging this guy?

You can't just fabricate a range out of thin air...

How is this board wet? I still have yet to hear anything to back up the read.

Only thing that may be certain is that if villain is competent, he would perceive our range as mostly flush draws, especially if hero has been quiet and not noticeable.

With you though process being what it is I actually like the flop smoothcall quite a lot. What turn cards scare me....ehhh alot I suppose especially being OOP \, but I suppose we can just fold if or hope for a small bet if one of them rolls off. The turn that rolled off is not one of these cards however and it is now time to spring our trap after the $100 second barrel. Bottom two pair is always such a dangerous hand. I now ck/raise to $300-$400. on 2nd thought You know what i just shove here w/$700 left a call taking you down to $600. IF he's got a strong K or FD your likely to have a good shot at a call being way ahead for a very nice pot.

There's just no way I can justify just flatting turn here and then possibly folding river if a 9,10,J,Q,K,A or heart rolls off on the river OOP.

Against a real aggro villain, raising to fold out the potential for him to draw against us is not the most +EV play unless we think his range really is almost entirely made up of draws. Why do we really think that here?

Turn CRAI is really bad as a result.

Pre is horrid btw, OOP with speculative hand is bad because he is going to charge you to hit your draw.

Why do you think he will call with that? And why do you think that is his range here?

1. These smallish bets, less than half pot, to me are indicative of villain trying to get value/showdown with a weak King.

2. Two pair, K/7 K/9, bet more to protect against flush draws. Less likely, of course since you have a 7 & 9.

3. I bomb the turn to protect my hand.

lol at protecting your hand versus someone whose betting range is likely wider than their calling range

So Rumor what is your suggestion? Assuming we made this call OOP preflop and are now in the situation we are which I assumed...

Basically what neutrogena and playertee suggest - check/call turn, then probably a mini river donk designed to induce a raise

Doing anything other than check/calling turn seems really bad, we should really keep checking here if we think villain is going to keep betting more of his range than he will call with.

Meh once there are callers of the preflop praise I really dislike the 3 bet idea without a read on all of them. We don't block any real hands with our cards

3b pre is more of a math thing. If you can break down the correct size given fold % and amount of dead money in hand, then sure.

Beyond that, don't do it.

its not the wettest board in the world but with flush draws and straight draws its certainly not dry. against a villan easily capable of raising with air and rainging with draws i dont understand why not get it in here. soul reading him for having a bigger two pair...way to nitty... get it in on flop..if turn bricks get it in ott...

you only have like 125 bbs to start the hand... i prefer makign it 30 pre to balance your range and slim the field.. but as played.. YES i believe you can stack off on this flop VS preflop raiser only.. you flopped bottom 2 in a raised pot witha flush draw on board..everyone stays playing aggro on boards like this with the flush draw.. how can you put him on a bigger hand then yours a large enough majority of the time to justify a fold..when you are beating so much.. and he most likley is on a draw

Just because the board reads 225 and the guy shows aggression, doesn't mean he has a 2.

Yes flush and straight draws are possible, but if you consider his range, there isn't that many combos of those draws in there.

As matter of fact, I don't even know where to begin to build his range, which is why this is a fold pre.

You are demonstrating a lack of understanding of playing beyond your cards.

Raising pre isn't better or worse per se, but without any read, raising pre and have no plan post is like firing flop without plan to barrel turn, it's automatically a losing play.

raise or fold pre.

Button may be competent but i believe his 5x raise pre is with 5 limpers is more on the weak side. if first limper calls $25 then the other 4 limpers are calling and you have just bloated a 6 way pot. if button was a good reg then he would make it more to protect his hand and aim for 1-2 callers regardless of his holdings. AP, buttons range is more weighted towards suited connecting broadways, mid low pairs. thoughts?


AP, fold or call pre is fine.

flop is where you need to make some decisions which dictate following streets.
CR flop or CR turn (no heart, no king)?. or decide if check calling blank turns is more your style?

i dont mind either but decide on the flop your plan for the turn/river.

AP again, i would raise turn for value and get it in if necessary. flush/ straight draws may feel committed, Kx may be stubborn/non believer or AA(unlikely IMO) may feel they are ahead.

lesson number 1 is dont limp from early pos with 97s.

grunch:

Pre flop I like opening 79s much more than limp calling oop w/ it.

I think this is either a raise or fold pre but you seem to be in control of the game flow so whatever.

flop: I think this is a standad check/raise. You have a hand that is almost always ahead but is super venerable multi way. There's so many turn cards that make life hard on you or kill your action. Any 6, 8, T, J, Q, K, A, heart is potentially bad. Couple this with the flow of the table and I think you can raise and get called by worse the vast majority of the time. Raise for value and to protect. I'd go big to fwiw as it's likely to look more semi bluffy, drawish.

Turn: you got one of the best cards in the deck for your hand. It changes nothing. Your gamble to play slow has paid off. Check again and expect him to bet almost always. Again now we must raise, I'd be willing to raise smaller now than on the flop as there's less players and only one card to come. Still I want to get money in the pot now and I want the betting lead on the river. I check/raise call it off if he would 3bet.

The most likely situation is he just calls (or folds) the raise, so with the initiative I'm leading almost all rivers, I'm probably betting all 2-T except 3's non heart rivers big (jam), all hearts I'd be betting smaller, I hate all non heart J, K, Q,. I think I bet small K's and check call J, Q, A.

read the thread. I hate check/calling 2 streets w/ bottom two. This likely makes the least, puts us in ugly spots, and gives us the best chance of loosing the pot.

Get money in the pot when your almost always ahead and villain can call w/ most of his range.

For all those that like calling two streets, how would you play your FD's, combo draws here?

Every post that suggest hero to do more than playing the hand as bluff catcher is either directly or indirectly saying the board is wet.

Exactly how is this board dangerous is something I have yet read.

How we play certain hands really does not matter here.

How do most people play FD in this spot is exactly how hero has played it so far.

Edit: meant to say hero but said villain instead.