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2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... 2/5 flop the bottom set got raised......

03-21-2012 , 12:59 PM
Prehand Descriptions
Villain 1: TAG. Got bad beat and lost half of his chip ($300). Then went all-in with AKo PF against QQ and won the coin flip. Now sitting at around $700.
Villain 2: No read. Sat down only 5 minute. Young Asian male. Bout in $200
Hero: TAG. Never made any crazy move so far.

1 hours ago, I just sat down at the table with $200 and quickly found out there is a maniac player(with $800 in front) playing every hand and raising 50% PF. Apparently everybody is targeting this player. I got dealt AQs in the C/O raise it to $25. Maniac make $125 to go. V1 cold-call $120 more and I pushed. Both Maniac and V1 called. Board came QQ54A and I scoop the pot. V1 has Ako and maniac got TT.

$2/5 NL (9 handed)
UTG ($600)
EP V2 ($195)
EP+1 ($500)
MP ($450)
MP+1 ($500)
CO V1($900)
Button ($500)
SB Hero ($600)
BB ($200)

Hero is dealt 33

UTG folds, V2 limps, EP+1 folds, MP limp, Mp+1 folds, V1 limp and button makes it $30 to go. Everybody calls.
I called and hope to hit a set on the flop and know that once I called, other players are very likely to call.

Flop ($180) 7, 4, 3 rainbow
Hero bet $50, BB folds, V2 went all-in for $165, MP folds V1 calls $165, Button folds. Hero?

I bet $50 to induce raise and am afraid that I won’t get the chance to check raise.
2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... Quote
03-21-2012 , 01:19 PM
what position were you in? SB/BB?
2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... Quote
03-21-2012 , 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pampers
what position were you in? SB/BB?
I am in the SB.
2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... Quote
03-21-2012 , 01:53 PM
Jamwich.
2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... Quote
03-21-2012 , 01:54 PM
Sorry he had a straight.
2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... Quote
03-21-2012 , 02:08 PM
Why not c/r flop? I know you're trying to induce a bluff, but when they see a tight player lead into 6 players, it's hard for them to bluff. I'd c/r since it's highly unlikely that it will be checked through.

As played, shove. Sounds like you got set-on-set or set-on-straight. That's poker.

Edit: did you see a lot of flops checked through? If so, you can bet, but I wouldn't bet to induce, I'd bet $100 for value if the table was passive. But it sounds like this table is aggressive enough to where check-raising is more profitable
2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... Quote
03-21-2012 , 02:21 PM
The reason that I did not go for C/R is because all the poker books I read told me not to slow play bottom set….
Anyway, as most of you suggest, I pushed and instant-called by V1 who proudly show his 56o only to see the case 3 fell on the river.

My question is: Should I just called the $115 on the flop and hope the board paired? At this point, I don’t worry about V2 but V1’s possible holding s are 56, 74 and 34. I think he will 3 bet if he got 77 or 44.
2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... Quote
03-21-2012 , 02:28 PM
c/r here is bad. You don't generally want to c/r super dry 6 way flops
2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... Quote
03-21-2012 , 02:46 PM
Not sure planning to check raise is classed as slow playing, be it a good or bad play in this spot. I'm fine with the smallish donk here. When raised by V1 and V2 calls I'd flat call. If V1 does have you crushed you want max value out of v2 in a side pot. I can't see folding a set is +EV here getting 5:1 with another player still with chips and he folds a lot of his range to your shove. Seems to me you ran into the very top of his range and win more than you lose in the long run but perhaps not with a shove when you did.

I am a bit confused as to where the maniac is in this hand, as that can drastically alter how some people will play hands and maybe slow down with a premiums to limp raise him or even stop and go on a flop.

Last edited by Biju; 03-21-2012 at 03:00 PM.
2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... Quote
03-21-2012 , 02:48 PM
Also, the small bet to induce is silly. Just make a regular sized bet.
2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... Quote
03-21-2012 , 03:03 PM
^Depends on your plan, which granted OP didn't have. If your goal is to get all in it looks pretty weak as a bet fold o/pair sort of line and induces a decent pot committing raise.
2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... Quote
03-21-2012 , 03:05 PM
I don't see what the problem is here. You called pre hoping to hit a set and then you got the set...

I like the donk bet a lot. C/R is bad only because of your position relative to the PFR. If it checks to him and you c/r, you shut out the other players.

By leading, you deny the others a chance to check to the raiser and rate to pick up extra money.

By contrast, if the PFR was directly to your left, then checking is best because the PFR will act first, the others will react and you can go for a c/r.
2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... Quote
03-21-2012 , 03:05 PM
The times you actually "induce" a raise are going to be strong hands anyway and you're going to miss value from medium hands.

Most of the time betting to induce a raise is just FPS.
2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... Quote
03-21-2012 , 03:27 PM
Overpairs all the way up to AA will raise (as above I have no idea where maniac is in this hand hence possible pairs up to AA). Combos draws will raise. Two pair will raise. We're only worried about a handful of combinations exactly 77, 44, 56. Just unlucky Villain had one. I do agree with your comment on FPS but this does seem one of the few spots it works
2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... Quote
03-21-2012 , 04:50 PM
Thank you for all the comments and I did learned a lot.
Looks like that calling $115 on the flop is not a bad play either. I went all-in because:
1. I hit my set.
2. I don't know what I will do if a 5 or 6 hit the turn.

The reason for the $50 bet on OTF is that it is amount that I think any top pair or over pair will call me for and all the two pair and some over pair will raise me.

BTW, the maniac player blew away his entire $800 in 30 minutes so he was not in this hand.
2/5 flop the bottom set got raised...... Quote

      
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