2/5 on a saturday night

V (mid 30s) is a lag/big winner, cbets, double and triple barrels a lot, opens as wide as 87o in ep, not afraid to make moves. I've seen him c/r with air in the past against nitty players.

Hero (50s, chinese) is playing super tight but V knows that Hero is capable of betting with weaker hands as bluffs sometimes.

Stacks ($500)

V opens to $25 UTG, 1 caller in MP (ABC fish), Hero looks down at KTcc and calls on the BTN, BB calls

Pot $100
Flop
963r (one club)
BB checks, V checks (???), MP checks, Hero decides to take a stab at it and bets $60, BB folds, V raises to $160, MP folds, action on Hero


With his image, V would surely cbet any strong hands like OPs/flopped sets, so his check seems like weakness/giving up in a 4-way pot oop. Hero decides to discount strong hands in BB/MP's ranges as well on this board and takes a stab at it with his image with a plan to double barrel almost all turns.

After the BB folds, V seems to be fairly confident that the ABC fish is going to fold too (because he had quickly checked the flop). V knows that a c/r over Hero's bet here looks super strong and is likely to get called ONLY by sets.

I'm thinking I can either fold here, flat with an intention to take it away on the turn if he checks/gives up or 3bet to $260/fold to avoid getting double-barrel bluffed.

Hero ?

I think you don't see well the problem in this hand. You know, in a chess game for example, your first moves dictate the rest of the game. A chess player could not just come with the final moves and ask what one think about it. It all goes to the setting yourself in a position to take a win. Your very first moves make a difference and if your peices are not well located, nothing you can do. Your prior moves count a lot.

For sure once V raises, unless you have a good read and the balls to raise it all in, not much you can do. But as I say, I don't recommend taking that line unless you have a super strong read. Sometimes you have to accept being bluffed. And V knows it, that you can not continue in this hand without risking your stack. He's basically telling you : "if you continue you risk your stack ! " Which is very effective. And a check raise is in fact much more effective for him than a Cbet, since people give more credibility to a check-raise, and he has less credibility. Well played for him. You have to fold.

But, in the first place, I guess you should have fold KT, it's a dominated hand that can get you trouble. I don't see where's the opportunity there. There is no ante, patience is good to have.
¸
But if you decide to C-bet the flop. I think you may be right, even tough 4 ways is always more risky. And you are pretty sure to get at least 2 folds. So yes I agree. But 60$ is strange. You don't block the straight draw. You have 4 opponents, and an agressive one, and you give opponent a chance to reraise you. Usually, people with strong hand try to protect their strong hand. If you had a top pair, even more. So 60$ looks either like : I have a set, and I take a risk to let people draw because I want action, OR : I don't know where I'm at with some kind of pair and I take a stab. But if at a minimum he has a read that you would bet your sets diffenrently he may raise you !! You put yourself in a vulnerable spot. For 30$ more $$$, the whole dynamic would be different. If you bet like 90$ I know it's a lot, it's almost the pot. But HEY ! You are 4 handed ! you must protect your hand ! And, you would be the one saying to him : if you want to play, you play for your stack. You then shut up his bluffs ! And if he goes for a play, he goes for his stack. So you can then fold more comfortably and say nice hand, or avoid this situation and pick up the 100$ in the middle.

The board is super dry. I'm betting $60 with my entire range here.

The problem is, in your entire range, only sets, and maybe A9, TT could really continue playing after the raise. But A9 and TT are not insta call either !! It's easy to say your opponent is loose and then lose your stack. Think of Gus Hansen, Tom Dwan, etc.... This is why the opponent can make that play. A9 is a tough call, TT a little less, and your sets are unlikely. That's why your opponent puts you in a tough spot. Because he may think that way. But I think by sizing your bet higher, you force him to commit his stack if he wants to make a play, and it will give you read that you were missing if he decide to play back.

If you're confident and think he reads well then I guess you could jam. Itd be 415 to win 295 and you have backdoor outs and overs to the board.
He'll be getting 300 to win 700 though so you have to be confident that not only he's full of **** sometimes, but also that he has a raise /fold range, which many lags do not.

I think it would be really tough given our image for Vil not to put us on sets and also difficult for him to have one.

Who knows, maybe we even smash an 87 when he calls.

I wouldn't make this play often; but I'm pretty lag myself so that's only because my image doesn't really allow for it. Also your read needs to be damn good to make this profitable. Put the pieces all together and make the play, otherwise just wait until you do have a set here and stack him.

Agreed.

However, we may not get that set for the rest of this session.

Or the rest of the weekend.

Takes a hell of a read to shove here.

given reads + image: 3b pre, go all-in now

you say he will c/r nitty players (you) with air and would bet all his decent+ hands as the pfr -> this exact thing has happened so just shove and collect the pot like every time