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2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? 2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing?

11-07-2020 , 08:03 PM
Hand is pretty straight forward, but I am interested to think in the best turn sizing.

Villain 3bets a wide range and can take some odd lines
I 4bet him a lot. He has seen me 4bet KQs and Axs

2/5
$1350 effective
Hero CO - AK and goes $25 over a limp
Villain SB - 3bet $115
Folds to hero who 4bet $275
Villain looks slightly frustrated but calls

$560
KJ5
Villain leads $250
Hero calls

$1060
5

Villain checks
Hero ??

I just ended up jamming (I only have like $800~ left), but it pretty much always ends the hand unless he some how has KK or JJ or a random 5. Not a terrible result as the pot is 212BB and that's a nice win. His most likely hand is air but he could have some draws like AQ or Ax spades. Jam is fine, just not sure it was the best play. I figured I have the board pretty locked, and I want to try and win more.
2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? Quote
11-07-2020 , 08:37 PM
If the plan is to chop up your stack into pieces that are easier to call off, why not just raise the flop so that you’re jamming the turn for less? Or were you thinking he’d bet again?
2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? Quote
11-07-2020 , 08:47 PM
I think V shows up here a lot with QQ, shoving gets called by AK/KK/KJs/JJ/55 IMO, you do block the first 3. It should protect you from AsQs/AsTs however, so as a protection bet, I like shoving to try and win the 1k pot outright over value betting smaller. The true question is, would V fold the GSRD?
2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? Quote
11-07-2020 , 08:52 PM
Well played imo

We can min raise flop, GII on every turn but that’s fairly problematic in a few ways.

I think most V’s will find a fold as well OTF with Kx if their intention for donking was to see where they were at.

AP in hindsight we can see that V checked, but i think V will blast off turn with worse a reasonable % as well and raising flop eliminates that possibility.

We can also bet something like 20-25% OTT with this and AQss but it’s not really a thing and SPR is awkward OTT.
2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? Quote
11-07-2020 , 09:01 PM
Checkback is an option. Having chosen to bet, jam seems fine, as villain will probably play correctly vs all sizes 400 and below.
2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? Quote
11-07-2020 , 10:21 PM
Lol at him folding a royal draw

Jam flop
As played jam turn
2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? Quote
11-07-2020 , 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaDonk
Lol at him folding a royal draw

Jam flop
As played jam turn
I don't want to jam flop as this player will show up with too wide a range. I want him to continue bluffing if he is bluffing. Once he checks turn though it feels like he is giving up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy
Checkback is an option. Having chosen to bet, jam seems fine, as villain will probably play correctly vs all sizes 400 and below.
Checking back would of been the best play if I knew his hand as I was 100% to win the hand. I did not have that info at the time though. I don't think checking back is a great strategy with this hand as a whole though, but in this situation vs this villain it could of been good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadtoPro
Well played imo

We can min raise flop, GII on every turn but that’s fairly problematic in a few ways.

I think most V’s will find a fold as well OTF with Kx if their intention for donking was to see where they were at.

AP in hindsight we can see that V checked, but i think V will blast off turn with worse a reasonable % as well and raising flop eliminates that possibility.

We can also bet something like 20-25% OTT with this and AQss but it’s not really a thing and SPR is awkward OTT.
I think if I had AQss or any flush draw, I would just be jamming his flop lead for maximum fold equity, and if I do get called I have the highest equity %.

Last edited by djevans; 11-07-2020 at 10:46 PM.
2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? Quote
11-07-2020 , 10:49 PM
His flop donk on a board that smacks your range leads me to believe he’s not great and can call off on flop
2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? Quote
11-08-2020 , 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmahaDonk
His flop donk on a board that smacks your range leads me to believe he’s not great and can call off on flop
He definitely should not be leading this flop. That was very poorly played. He also shouldn’t of called the 4bet but here we are. He is a big winner though because he rarely gets 4bet so his wild 3bets never get punished.
2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? Quote
11-08-2020 , 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans
He definitely should not be leading this flop. That was very poorly played.
This would be true with “standard ranges” but if he has KJo, KJs, or even JJs which you may not always 4-bet/GII than it’s not terrible believe it or not. Esp true if he’s just calling everything vs the 4-bet including AA or at least KK as well (which is unlikely)

Even for this sizing.

But you should be more aware as to what V’s range looks like here than anyone reading this

The implications of Range advantage are misapplied in a lot of spots in this forum because hero needs to base it on what ranges Villain is likely to have, rather than should have at equilibrium.
2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? Quote
11-09-2020 , 12:14 PM
4bet pot, so unless his range is unusually wide, I can't see what worse hands he would call a turn bet. AQss certainly, but what else? is he calling pre w/QTs?

Turn X also allows him to potentially stab river, chance for value there.
2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? Quote
11-09-2020 , 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samo
4bet pot, so unless his range is unusually wide, I can't see what worse hands he would call a turn bet. AQss certainly, but what else? is he calling pre w/QTs?

Turn X also allows him to potentially stab river, chance for value there.

In theory yes. Hero’s 4 bet was only 2.5x and while QTs should fold against a 4 bet range for that price, it might peel it.

The whole point of not bombing 4 bets is to force marginal decisions with marginal hands. We proceed to have about as good of a board as we could ask for given the action and we want to find excuses to not bet it?

Yeah sometimes they have KJs or JJ and we lose. Sometimes they also have KQs or KTs or QQ or a draw and we get all the money in with great equity.

Like really, he donks flop and checks turn with like 2/3rds PSB behind and we have a strong hand. Now isn’t the time to start worrying we are beat or that we won’t get action.

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2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? Quote
11-09-2020 , 03:59 PM
I feel like I want to bet about $550 here so that’s probably what I do. Really not different from AI.
2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? Quote
11-09-2020 , 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdr0317
In theory yes. Hero’s 4 bet was only 2.5x and while QTs should fold against a 4 bet range for that price, it might peel it.

The whole point of not bombing 4 bets is to force marginal decisions with marginal hands. We proceed to have about as good of a board as we could ask for given the action and we want to find excuses to not bet it?

Yeah sometimes they have KJs or JJ and we lose. Sometimes they also have KQs or KTs or QQ or a draw and we get all the money in with great equity.

Like really, he donks flop and checks turn with like 2/3rds PSB behind and we have a strong hand. Now isn’t the time to start worrying we are beat or that we won’t get action.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If we think he'll gii with those hands above, by all means yes.

The point I tried to convey is there is a probably a better chance he would fold those on the turn, as opposed to shoving/calling river.
2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? Quote
11-10-2020 , 03:33 AM
Villain was probably done with the hand when he checked so it didn't mater what I did.

I don't like checking because I don't wanna give free equity to a hand that could have equity.

If he has equity it can't be much more than 20% which means I should bet more than $400

He needs 30% to call the $800 bet, doubt he has that here.
2/5 Deep - Best turn sizing? Quote

      
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