Hey guys!

HERO/SB(900) Young 20s white, has been fairly aggressive and entering most pots with a raise, should not be viewed as a maniac however.

V/BTN(700) MAWG, fairly ABC, I've been able to successfully float/bet turn against him a few times.

1 limp
nitty OMC raises to 20
V calls
HERO calls with 75
limper calls

all players have aprox 700-800 and are fairly fit/fold.

4way
FLOP(87) 754

HERO checks
limp and OMC check
V bets 50
HERO calls.

limper and OMC fold

HU
TURN(187) A

HERO leads 100
V tank calls

RIVER(387) 8

HERO?

Rip this apart.

Fold pre

Really? why?

Definitely check-raise the flop. It's very draw heavy, you have hit your hand massively but it's very vulnerable to bad turns. Make it 150 OTF

I really don't like the lead out after just calling flop - are you trying to rep an Ace? Given your image and as you played it you should be check-raising the turn, at least that way you can rep two pair combos, or an ace with a straight draw type hands

As played I check the river. And possibly tank call 1/2 pot bet from V.

Id actually bet for value here, as your line will look bluffy and it's hard for either you or villain to have a 6 here the way hand played out.

Sizing in this spot is important as we want to keep all the hands we are currently ahead of in villains calling range,
I would bet 170.

You can also easily b/f here if villain raises.

I think worse hands don't call in this spot but maybe the maniac image will justify betting river.

I dont think you butchered it per se but v can def have made alot of 2 pr hands with the A on the turn..

Guessing this is what happened?

Not only is this the worse advice you could give under the circumstances but you don't post any thoughts behind folding. Not helpful at all imo.

Imho this is the ideal type of hand to do this with given villain descriptions and stack sizes, even OOP. I expect you can take down pots enough times to make this a profitable call.

Flop I think it's close between a call and a raise. A call would keep OMC in there with overpairs (which I assume is why you just called) and there aren't a ton of ugly turn cards. Raising would most likely end the hand here although if you were to end up gii vs an ABC villain you'd have quite a bit of variance on your hands I'd expect.

Turn Turn is not bad given your image, although him tank calling is odd, I'd have trouble ranging him.

River I agree with "look at me now", best line I can think of is bet (1/2 pot) and fold to a shove on the river. He might've turned two pair (A7/5/4s) though that is somewhat unlikely since you block two of those combo possibilities.

because calling with 57 to a "nitty" open in the sb is a profitable play? Best case scenario is basically the above board, and you still don't like seeing it. Fold pre is the best advice.. /thread

Obvious fold pre. Either lead or x/r flop. As played, x/c.

I think it's a marginal call pre. Either way, call or fold, really don't mind either. Especially if you haven't played a hand recently good spot to try to get involved.

As played, I think you played this great on all streets. Calling flop makes it look like a 6, firing ace makes it look like you have a 6 but are really trying to rep the ace, love it. River obviously blows and I'd honestly tank and bet like 70. We're essentially trying to find a bet that makes him level himself into a call with a big ace, Or maybe even a hand like qq or kk. Other option is obviously check but I don't think he can ever bet on that river unless your beat. If your read is right that hes a nit, he's either got 99+, ak, aq, maybe aa, and maybe 66. So in my opinion clear value bet and hope he levels himself. Other positive to a small value bet is that if he does have you beat your naming your price (and a small one) to get to showdown. Don't really think aa could raise you in this spot but it could probably value bet when checked to for more.

Gl

Fold pre, Reasons: you are oop agianst an omc nit (who will probably blast the flop with all overpairs and never fold with almost all his p/f openings and an abc player who is also looking to bust the nit with holdings that may give you bad reverse implied odds) you just dont have the tools now to bluff when you whiff.

Flop: lead!! omc has a strong hand which you are way ahead of on a drawy board! Omc will almost alwasy repop it on a board like this with an overpair leaving you and him hu

Turn: lead bigger fold if he comes over the top.

river: as played b/f you could easily have the 1 liner to the straight and if he is as abc as you think (even if he is not) its near impossible for him to come over the top as a bluff here, and you can get thin value from worse a lot

With our hand, you don't like seeing this flop??? Really??

About fold pre, if you are not very good at poker, yeah, fold pre is definitely the best advice. But if you know what you're doing you should be able to play against described v profitably. You need to be able to win pots post flop without having the best hand to make this call +ev. I would call most of the time pre.

I like your lead on the turn too fwiw. I think that turn checks through a good percent of the time, which we obviously hate.

As played, take v to value town on river. Bet/fold 1/2 - 2/3 pot for value.

This hand exemplifies why we dont call p/f oop in these spots 140bb deep!!

Even when we hit we have to lose a bunch of money to find out we are no good (AND THATS PROVIDED WE ARE GOOD ENOUGH TO KNOW WHEN TO FOLD!) and when we flop huge draws we are almost always flipping and the fold equity just isn't there no matter what we do.

^^ What I mean to say is if you really look at it: is the likelihood something terrible/bad/ok will happen on future streets far far outweighs the likelihood of something great happening.

I dont like this call pre if you have to as such questions post. Being OOP is disadvantage enough and its tough to exract max value even when you do hit. The only time you want to take such a risk is when the V is very predictable and you can run a big line when/if you hit it big which is rare.

I dont actually hate the line that you took and if your read is correct that he really did have a tough call on the turn, then Id bet for value and hope that he didnt have 66.

I don't like the call pre, either -- out of position against an OMC raise and fit or fold players? If you do hit, they fold or you get into trouble, just as with this hand.

I would have lead or check/raised flop. I check/fold river. From the sounds of it, this guy is not betting with a hand you beat. I doubt he folds a better hand to a bet, either. If he's scared and you can rep the 6 and get him to fold two pair, go for it.

Count another vote for folding small SC's OOP PF in general at 2/5. It does seem like this could be a good spot to 3-bet though. You described the OMC as a typical OMC, but since he c/f's this flop after he raised a limper to $20-- as opposed to $25-$35-- it looks like he's one of those guys who basically chooses raise sizes based on hand strength. $20 here is usually ATs/AJ/AQ or 88-TT with these guys, and you'll get a fold from his entire range with a well-sized squeeze. Of course, if you've seen him use this same sizing-- after a limp, which makes a big difference-- with premium pairs/AK before (or if you haven't seen him raise at all), then obviously squeezing would be committing chipicide. (I can't emphasize this point enough, before I get flamed for recommending light 3-betting OMC's from OOP, that I'm saying ONLY consider it if you've got this information already.) But IN GENERAL, $20 after a limp here is usually a pretty reliable bet-sizing tell.

As played, I'd c/r flop to get value from/protect equity against 88-JJ or a draw (fold if re-reaised). Then b/f turn, b/f smallish river. That's my two or three cents.

didn't read responses.. Not sure what MAWG is..
fold pre

AP, c/c flop is okay, c/r okay too. I think its close.

AP, turn lead is best, value to be had and hes probably going to ch a lot of Ax/pair+SD stuff. I think we should lead larger.

AP, River I think is bet small(130-150)/f versus an ABC player. If hes particularly tight C/f is good too.

edit: would help if I know what MAWG means.
I think flop c/r is best if hes loose, and c/f river is best if hes tight

Actually, the more I think about this the more I like lead/lead/lead in this spot. More likely to get 3 streets of value from TT-AA + These villain types will likely ch the flop with overcards instead of cbet.

Why do we wanna c/c the flop when omc has so many overpairs and big aces in his range on a drawy board?

Lead
B/F
B/F

Don't give the guy a reason to fold his Ax / overpair by raising IMO

Yeah, I edited my post, I actually like lead/lead/lead. Do omc's call c/r bet/bet on boards like this? I haven't played much 2/5 nlh lately

In general, if OMC's have an overpair they will call a c/r on this (and basically every) flop, and pay off turn and river, unless the board gets super ugly. Bet/bet/bet is good, too, but I think c/r flop gives the opportunity to get an extra bet or two in their somewhere since it's 4 ways, and build the pot up even more. Though when OMC does have a big pair, he's likely to raise even a big flop lead, so I can see the merits of betting out as well. I guess I like both options.

I assume MAWG is middle aged white guy. But yeah, it makes things easier when people stick with acronyms that everyone knows so we don't have to figure it out. If this one is universally known, then I'm behind the times.

This exactly. Even if OMC doesn't raise his big PP's, leading the flop will give you the weakest perceived range. You should be able to get at least one more street of value after the flop maybe even two against somebody stubborn holding KK or the like. On the other hand, a c/r on the flop looks very strong, 2pr+ - exactly what it is.

If OP can profitably call good sized raises pre from the SB with small suited gappers, he is a better poker player than me. (Entirely possible!)

My plan was to c/r the omc because his 20 raise was larger then his standard 15 and I really thought he had QQ+.

Buy when he checks and v beys flop and I'm not sure I can check raise and get called by worse as his range is really wide here to include sets/straights and pair+SD combos.



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