Villian is a female reg. I never played with her before. Shes quite laggy and able to put her stack in. We have only played 2 hands togeather before this, both were played passively....we were generally getting out of each others way. Shes in HJ.
UTG is a reg

Effective stacks $900, I cover her.
Hero delt 55 UTG+1

UTG makes a non-standed $10 open, hero calls, Villian calls, 3 random fish calls.


Pot: $60
Flop: 578hh
UTG check, hero bet $30, villian call, eveyone folds.

Pot: $120
Turn: 578hh Kc
Hero bet $60, villian bets $200, Hero?

I know people will comment about my small bet size, its something I have incorporated into my game recently with good results (lol sample size).
So the general qts is...is it good to stack-off with bottom set almost 200bb deep? Im more of an online player more used to 100bb stacks....these deep stack situation is hurting my game.

There's no problem with betting small rather than pot/pot/potting every street like some people do, but I think the main reason to be betting bigger on this flop and this turn is because of our draw-heavy it is, and our depth of stacks. I don't think your only decision here is to shove or fold FWIW, I think you can call and see a river. A shove is pretty big and probably folds out a lot of worse made hands.

I think betting bigger on the flop is a must on a super wet board like this. When you bet full pot if they have any flush draw/open ender or even 9s and 10s they are not releasing there hand. You can get so much mroe value by betting bigger. As played i make it 500 on the turn and call the rest.

Why would you just call the turn what if a 6 or a heart peels on the river and she puts you in then what? why not get the money in when you know you have the best hand absolutely never flatting the turn.

I don't know about stacking off this deep cause it's basically a limped pot. Hate your bet sizing. If you are going to bet, plan to get it in.

Easy snap shove, her range is heavily weighted towards AK, KK is unlikely and KQ is a dream situation lol.

I would shove too. Not too likely you're up against a set or a straight here because she would probably raise the flop with 4 people to act behind her and she's probably not limping pre with KK. Any other raise commits you anyways and gives her better odds on her drawing hands, which seems like her most likely holding ie KhXh or 6hXh. If it's set over set, bad luck. 300 bbs and you could get away from it, but I don't think you can here.

Vs a fish I would bet pot to charge draws. If the reg folded and a fish called, I would bet pot on the turn just because fish likes to draw.
Against a reg, most don't stack-off on a draw. Lately when I do these small bets the regs would be confused and look me up very light putting me on a draw. They would call 3 small barrel with 2nd pair trying to bluff catch me. If I bet pot vs regs, they would call a flop to draw but fold to a turn barrel. I think I would lose some value with my sets here on those occasions. Betting pot on the flop vs regs would make my hand easier to play.
Vs more aggrssive regs they would view my small bets as weakness and throw in a raise.
On this hand I may have induced a raise from weaker hands....

What are you waiting for then to stack off with?

Ok your reasoning seems ok....but there should be no hesitation on the turn....

i'd say your WA but i'd still raise only because a heart on the river might kill your action a little. I'd re-pop turn to 500ish.

if a heart on the river wont slow her down but make her more inclined to bluff its an easy flat since the pot will be 520 and she only has about 660 behind after the 200 goes in.

Most likely she raises hands better than yours on the flop. She might have a hand like KhXh. Maybe a NFD. I think it's OK to commit here given her range, even if it does occasionally include slowplayed better hands. Raising is better than calling IMO to both protect and to prevent an action killer card

This was my thought exactly.
I hollywood a bit and then shoved. She tanked a long time and made a crying call with 88 for top set on the flop.
I was a little stunned and made a quiet comment that I didn't expect her to flat behind on the flop with that.

BBV is that way >>>>>>>>>>>>>

I'm sorry if you view it that way.
I tend to go through all the big pots I've played and review if I played them correctly. I wanted to hear some opinions from people here. Specifically if it was OK to stack-off with bottom set 200bb deep. How deep do some people think where we don't want to set-mine with 22-77?
I also think its helpful to post the results so everyone can see how villians can play. As you can see, this villian did not raise her hand on the flop multiway.

You can review the hand all you want. Its like analyzing getting hit by lightning. The situation will never happen again with the same board texture and the same type of villain(a girl). This type of hand is a hand you can't get away from. Its just a cooler man, or fold pre, no strat here. The only good you can get from this thread is be careful playing small pairs for set value.

Pokahblows is the resident ******, don't bother replying to him.

I don't like the bet sizing. While I can understand a small % turn bet, the flop is super draw heavy and pretty much anyone with a piece has odds to call a pot bet anyway. Betting the flop for pot also makes a small turn bet a lot larger (half pot would be 90, rather than 30) which adds up.

I hate the turn shove because the best hand you beat is AK and no one is putting in $900 here with AK. I think her range for c/c flop c/r turn is probably 77, 88, AKhh, AQhh, AJhh, AThh, KQhh I guess. She's not going to check AA/KK OTF and shes not going to c/c AK with no fd otf with others to act behind on that board. You're pretty much pricing out all the hearts (I don't think she calls off top pair and a FD for $600 more) and handing your stack over to the oversets.

I'd just call the turn raise, and snap off any river bet on non hearts.

I'm trying to c/r this flop. AP I think shoving>calling>folding.

That makes a lot of sense on the turn. She is a LAG, and you have a high end bluff catcher. You will keep a good chunk of your stack if you call the turn and a non-heart river. You'll probably make more money from worse hands by just calling and inducing big bluffs.

What do you think of betting half the pot if a heart hits the river? I don't know if I actually would do this but Hero's line looks like it could be a draw. Villain could have been disguising on the turn, but she didn't seem that interested in seeing another card.

I hate stacking off in what is basically a limp pot. Do you think villan would have called it off here with a flush or straight draw. If she is competent then she is never calling your shove with worse. The odds aren't there. Im calling the turn and reevaulating on the river.

I think her flatting top set on such a wet board on the flop was a big mistake that low-intermediate players sometimes make. That being said, if she took this line with 88 she should have a bunch of two pair combos in her range as well, so i think your line was fine ex the sizing and you just got unlucky.

I do think as others pointed out that your sizing was problematic. When you said you have been incorporating smaller bets into your game, can you share with us your approach as to when/why you are doing this?

In general you want to have an overall plan for the hand that takes into account stack sizes, flop texture and villain tendencies. Here, your plan should be 'I want to get my whole stack in by the river against as wide a range as possible'. If this were HU and you thought that a smaller bet would induce a raise from a wide range, then that could be a decent plan. Here though I think you want to charge draws the max and get weaker hands like 2pr pot-committed. So a pot sized bet on the flop is the best way to start your line IMO...

I think bottom set on a board like this and being deep, you need to be a little more careful - I don't think getting it in is horrible but you won't see too many hands that you beat - K7, K8 some of the times but mostly made straights and higher sets. AK/KQ getting it in on turn is laughable, unless playing against a really bad player.

:Grunch:
I think your 55 is pretty good here. This could be Kxhh, 78 or K8 a lot of the time. Could also be 77 or 88 but I think against this players range your equity is decent.

Now, the pot is 380. obv calling her 200 commits us, if we do reraise and she calls, you almost have to call the river even if a heart comes (or puke).

I think I re-raise to 450 and call shove. If a heart comes on the river, I might not be happy but villain might not be either and you can ship any river if she just calls your turn before she has a chance to act.

Ranges built with the thought that villain would R/R with KhQh, AhKh and probably fold K7o and K8o. Can probably include some number of those in her range.

I like the smaller bets, personally, as long as you are consistent and dont give off a lot of betting tells (like half pot with a pair, more with over pair, etc). This is why you do those smaller bets so you can get someone to spaz out with KhTh

Tough break. Against agro villains they could have 2pr or even a Khxh a lot, too, so I dont mind the way you played it. I appreciate the post if no one else does.