Hero ($900): Late 20s playing TAG only showing winners. Have c/f a lot of flops where I've missed as pfr so to say one paying attention, I'm playing pretty fit or fold.

V ($500): 30s black guy playing pretty snug. Have seen him fast play his big hands via c/r large when he has two pair or by betting his top pair type hands big. Have also seen him fold top pair once when he sensed he was beat.

V in UTG and raises to $30, I'm two to his left and call with red 22 and we're 6 ways to the flop:

Flop ($180): K42

V bets $110.

Hero?

call

there are really no draws and we want other people to float without folding out the initial raiser

It was a good thing you got it 6 ways, unless you were sure more people would come along without any squeezers or aggression around the button. I think it's marginal tho especially against a guy like that who won't go crazy with TP and who is pretty snug.

PF is bad without a real special table.

I think this is a mandatory slowplay. The pot is so big you will have no problem getting stacks in by the river, villain is highly likely to fold if you raise, you're not afraid of being drawn out on or the board getting scarier, and there are a lot of people left to act who you will shut out with a raise.

Not sure why PF is bad, we're getting better than 15-1 IO to set-mine. Other than that, I think this advice is spot-on.

implied odds if it goes heads up? He's not a spewer or a LAG where we can make it profitable.

I like the call pre, I like the call on flop, turn should play itself but unless multiple people call flop just flat villian's double barrel too it should be sizable, if he checks, bet half pot

If it goes h/u we have position and a fairly good read on the villain's post-flop tendencies. We can play poker from there.

I'm fine with pre-flop unless there are players behind who will 3bet wide/regularly. Call on the flop. As stated, turn plays itself.

we would want to be sure we can make at least 10 to 1 which would be about our break even point. So that would be 300, and I don't really see that happening heads up.

For example, if he has 1010 and the flop has overcards, we hit our set, he checks, we bet, he folds (or he bets, we call, turn goes check/bet/fold). Or if he has KK, he cbets an Ace high flop, we call, he checks turn, we bet, he folds.

I might call if I knew the table was passive with no aggression around the button. By calling him early, it does give more people the incentive to come along. Sometimes this will cause the domino effect of people getting priced in.

I do think playing these small PP's OOP are very tricky tho and they do get overplayed alot more than people imagine.

The problem is that we can't rely on stacking him 100% of the time when we hit, either because he whiffs the board or gets away. What happens with this runout if no one else limps? The pot is $60, he leads $40, and we need to get another $250 into the pot after our call.

The other big problem is that there are half a dozen people left in the hand who might wake up with a hand and 3bet.

Playing a tiny PP for a 6BB range in terrible relative position against a relatively good player is very likely going to be a leak. If you are very confident you can get to the flop without paying more and you're very confident someone is going to pay you off reliably, then fine, but as the likelihood of those things happening starts to fall from 100%, you're going to tip over into -EV land pretty quick.

I raised to $220. Thoughts?

Ugh!

I think thoughts on that have already been given by every poster. It sucks.

You just blew out everything including probably top pair. Why not just shove... it probably looks less strong than this (huge) minraise...

Its even worse considering the stacksizes, theres over 500 in pot now and villian only has ~350 left, if he calls, he has ~250 in a pot of over 600, which brings me to this... what are other callers' stack sizes, they are quite relevant, especially when you butcher the hand like this

Were you afraid of someone turning a straight??? lol

He was likely double barreling huge on turn, the value missed here makes me cry

Hopefully you ran into huge variance and got called anyways.

Min-raising in a 6-way pot with no draws and 4 players behind is bad. You blow everyone else out of the hand, PFR should know you are repping a set only, and might fold AK/AA. Raises in 6-way pots with other players behind are just the nuts always, especially on dry boards.

It's bad for a bunch of reasons. We aren't completing the action, V is not a total drooler and won't stack of with TP and we have bad position. If we were in late position with a few other callers it's totally fine.

Your hand plays itself on that flop. You should be stationing and betting when checked to. You have TP hands drawing dead, when you mi raise you allow villans to correctly fold Kx.

This.

If he calls/raises, he has you beat. (Unless he's really bad and can't fold AA.)

my thought is we don't flop sets and good hands too often. So when we do, we need to maximize our profits to the max. And the min-raise did the opposite.

I know you have a set and want to build a pot, but there was no reason to raise. Let another player or two call, and keep building a pot without telling everyone you have a monster.

What is your raising range on this flop vs an UTG PFR that just led 2/3 pot into the entire table? Is it anything other than 22 and 44?

24s,35s

Thanks. I've just been conditioning myself to "always fast play" as my greatest leak was slow playing and I guess I just overcompensated here. I knew when I put in the raise it didn't feel right for all the reasons you guys talked about but just wanted to see if there could ever be a case for raising. How about if we were super deep or if I hadn't seen V fold top pair? Is it always a flat here?

particularly here, yes, id say basically always

you do want to fast play USUALLY, and its not like you wont be looking to fast play here too, on LATER streets

but in general, the key points to call THIS flop are: board is too dry, villian is betting BIG, people are left behind

basically villian is already fast playing FOR YOU

Horrible raise. On such a dry flop, I'm ALWAYS flatting and hoping someone with KQ overshoves. If all folds, and turn comes a blank, I'm betting like $150 OTT if villain checks to us, if he bets into us, I'm just shoving.
Then I'm shoving all rivers.

Flat unless you know V is always stacking off Kx to a raise.

Yes, on this flop it is always a flat.

preflop is meh. like everyone said, it's kinda table dependent because of position

flop: call. he led out into 5 people, so he has probably has something relatively ok. if you just call and everyone folds, the pot will be 400 and he'll have less than a PSB left, easy to get stacks in

if he's deep, i think it's still a call because being 6 ways pre bloated the pot for you. if you were 1k deep:
turn (400), stacks 860, if he bets (or c/c) 200
river (800), stacks 660

really raising only becomes an issue if you're like 1400+ deep. and thats assuming no one else goes along for a street.

Ever had a set lose? Did it just lose a little?

Ever had a set to bet and all fold on the flop?

15-1 is not enough.

Action Dan sez 25-1. I agree. (calling pf only. you raise and it's a different story)