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2-5 Borgata. Flush draw In position. big multiway. 2-5 Borgata. Flush draw In position. big multiway.

12-14-2012 , 11:12 PM
Fold to c/r

That type of two tone flop smacks your villians pretty well...not to mention the nut draws to your hand..

There is no repping here after the c/r clear fold...
2-5 Borgata. Flush draw In position. big multiway. Quote
12-15-2012 , 01:14 AM
OP: What hands do you think your opponents will put you on once you shove the turn?
2-5 Borgata. Flush draw In position. big multiway. Quote
12-15-2012 , 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardan
my basis for BB folding is not hindsight. its based on his turn check. any real hand bets that card out of position. it can't risk a check behind. it is OBVIOUS BB does not have a hand once he checks the turn.
This is full of fail. We have to remember that our villains do not think like typical 2+2ers, that they will be bad and have all manner of leaks.

One of the biggest leaks of LLSNL players is not understanding fold equity and being bad calling stations in spots where the optimal play is a shove.

If I had a nickel for every time I saw a LLSNL check / call all-in on a flush draw instead of shoving first, i'd have a lot of nickels.

Given the super heavy flop action, you are smoking crystal meth laced with crack if you believe either villain is folding. The fact that one of them did fold is just statistically unlikely and the exception . not the rule.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking villains think like us. And given the flop action, your adherence to the thought that you can rep a big hand and fold them out is just seriously -EV. If you frequently put yourself in these spots and then think "i'll just use my awesome poker super powers to rep a big hand and push out my villains...." then you are in for some rough times....
2-5 Borgata. Flush draw In position. big multiway. Quote
12-15-2012 , 02:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardan
also, this is now a relatively large pot....

ASSUMING my read on BB ch raiser is correct (that he is dicking around w something like top top (A5), that just leaves one opponent left...

so far, she has limp called, donk bet called check raise.
Her possible range to me is mid over pair (66-1010),sets, only 2 pair combo i give her is 45 since i rule out 24 and 25. I also rule out 63, but A3 is in the range. She could also have a different flush draw. or even a hand like a pair w a straight draw. or even 67(unlikely w donk bet on flop).

She then checks the 8 turn to you, which completes the 67 straight draw.

Now remember, assuming our read on BB is correct, and that he is going to fold; do we then like our shove into this large pot w some fold equity as well as possible outs?

i think she would fold a nut flush draw to the turn bet, as well as a pair w a straight draw. She may even fold sets now that the 8 has landed on the turn...

This is a big pot and i feel that none of you are as hungry for it as we should be...we're here to find the best line to win. I don't necessarily think the more passive route is wrong (this is why i posted) but i also think you guys aren't LOOKING for ways to win this big pot like all should be.
Ok, there are some problems here... First of all, no one is folding a NFD. They perceive themself to have north of 12 outs (and in reality they are ahead), and your bet looks bluffy - Why? Because a real hand would have shoved the flop.

More generally though, you seem to be making a mistake of holding simultaneous contradictory beliefs about your opponents. You are basically assuming they are loose enough that they could be holding weak hands given the flop action, but then you assume they are tight enough to fold to your turn bet.

The way your post reads, its like you are assuming a best case scenario in all situations. You need to be assuming an average scenario.
2-5 Borgata. Flush draw In position. big multiway. Quote
12-15-2012 , 02:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samo
I stopped reading after V2 calls flop raise. Fold.

While V1 may make moves, that style is likely saved for HU or 3-way play. Multi-way I'd give credit, besides our hand is not strong enough to continue. Pairing our overs likely not good and FD is 4th nuts.
Also, if it was heads up I would like the all in move better, be coz the other player could be on a draw and u could force him out or if he had just an average hand you could have fold equity. One player check raising and v2 calling indicates at least one of them probably has a strong enough hand to call your turn all in move. In this spot, if I called his check raise, I definitely would have taken the free card. All things said, it was a tough spot to be in bro and you went with your read. Gl

Last edited by PokerJuice1; 12-15-2012 at 02:28 AM. Reason: Forgot something
2-5 Borgata. Flush draw In position. big multiway. Quote
12-15-2012 , 06:29 AM
This hand is like a perfect example of everything that makes LLSNL profitable. If I were at your table, I'd take your weak preflop open as an invitation to 3bet everything, and I'd be picking on you all session long. You also way overestimate the value of your mediocre draw, in a situation where like dgiharris said, we could easily, EASILY be drawing dead.

This hand might be interesting with the ATdd. With JTdd, it's not even close. And if for some reason you called the flop, checking back the turn is by far the best choice. "Repping" 76 here is just... ughhh. Your opponents simply don't care, or won't recognize it at all.

Misplayed every street, need to fundamentally reconsider your approach to the game, unless you only play recreationally.
2-5 Borgata. Flush draw In position. big multiway. Quote
12-15-2012 , 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dumbluck13
This hand is like a perfect example of everything that makes LLSNL profitable.
I wouldn't go that far. The fact that OP is posting here certainly makes them different than most live casino players. Yes the hand was badly misplayed but let's not go overboard - at least OP is talking about ranges and equity, etc, lets help them figure out how to apply it properly.
2-5 Borgata. Flush draw In position. big multiway. Quote
12-15-2012 , 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maggler
I wouldn't go that far. The fact that OP is posting here certainly makes them different than most live casino players. Yes the hand was badly misplayed but let's not go overboard - at least OP is talking about ranges and equity, etc, lets help them figure out how to apply it properly.
Obviously you're right, and I don't just come off as sounding like a dick, I am just being a dick. I do think some tough love is in order; I don't want OP to think this hand is "close" or he just "runs bad" or something. I want him to really understand that this hand is evidence of deep problems in his overall game.
2-5 Borgata. Flush draw In position. big multiway. Quote
12-15-2012 , 05:09 PM
fold flop to raise, the limp/calls can often be PPs and it's looking like someone hit a set and a lot of money is going in on the turn. you'll be getting the wrong price

Last edited by jimbobwe00; 12-15-2012 at 05:22 PM. Reason: also, more pre
2-5 Borgata. Flush draw In position. big multiway. Quote

      
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