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2/5 AKs flop top top against very good reg 2/5 AKs flop top top against very good reg

07-31-2021 , 09:47 PM
Hero $1300 2/5 live

In BB with AKcc

HJ raise to $15, CO and btn call, hero raise to $90, HJ calls

HJ has about $900-1000 to start the hand. He's a very good reg. Prob best in the room. Very difficult to play against.

Flop ($217) KQ8dd

Hero bets $140, V calls

In hindsight I think something like $160 might be better.

Turn ($497) Qd

Hero?
2/5 AKs flop top top against very good reg Quote
07-31-2021 , 10:10 PM
i actually think your good a lot but need protection, this is really tough, i'm not a fan of the raise size pre, it's too hard to get this isolated for a price that doesn't hurt your implied odds, i just make this more expensive but price in the field pre usually, the most you actually want to go here is 75, but just a pot building 45 might just be the way to go

this is a spot where you have to read yourself, are you ever raising out of the BB light to this sizing (prolly not)

your in a pickle of a spot because villain probably knows your range so your hand is kind of face up, i think betting and checking are about the same and it just depends on what you think he thinks you have

given the large large sizing i want to barrell to rep the diamonds because those diamonds are blocking his pf diamonds, good for him if he flopped a low flush we still have outs and with the flush being blocked i think i just want to barrell

def want to go for fat value and bet smaller like 320

Last edited by KT ART; 07-31-2021 at 10:16 PM.
2/5 AKs flop top top against very good reg Quote
07-31-2021 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KT ART
i actually think your good a lot but need protection, this is really tough, i'm not a fan of the raise size pre, it's too hard to get this isolated for a price that doesn't hurt your implied odds, i just make this more expensive but price in the field pre usually, the most you actually want to go here is 75, but just a pot building 45 might just be the way to go

this is a spot where you have to read yourself, are you ever raising out of the BB light to this sizing (prolly not)
I would use this same size to squeeze with a hand like 56s. $45 is such a small raise nobody is folding and I'm not looking for a multiway pot. I'm looking to take down the dead money or go heads up. If I was IP I'd go $75 but I go bigger OOP.
2/5 AKs flop top top against very good reg Quote
08-01-2021 , 02:13 AM
Pre seems standard.

Flop I go less unless I'm planning to bet-bet-shove.

Turn I think we need to think about his range before continuing? I don't think he has a ton of flushes or Q in his range but I can't see many worse hands calling another bet so I'd rather check.
2/5 AKs flop top top against very good reg Quote
08-01-2021 , 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer
Pre seems standard.

Flop I go less unless I'm planning to bet-bet-shove.

Turn I think we need to think about his range before continuing? I don't think he has a ton of flushes or Q in his range but I can't see many worse hands calling another bet so I'd rather check.
I agree with a smaller sizing. I was looking to charge draws and the board also favors my range but looking back he really shouldn't have many draws here. Not sure what to put him on.

On the turn I check, he bets $325, hero?
2/5 AKs flop top top against very good reg Quote
08-01-2021 , 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phraust
I would use this same size to squeeze with a hand like 56s. $45 is such a small raise nobody is folding and I'm not looking for a multiway pot. I'm looking to take down the dead money or go heads up. If I was IP I'd go $75 but I go bigger OOP.
you usually can't get this isolated, once the OR calls, it's a cascade of calls that usually follow, nothing technically wrong with your sizing, the only problem is balancing

i normally just resign myself to playing it multiway. stacks are so deep that getting it isolated or taking down the blinds isn't as easy as a 100 BB game

my problem with the bet size is that if i'm sitting in villains seat, i will put you on the exact hand you have.

villain pretty much has the other AK a lot of the time, i really can't think of that many hands he could have except it's almost always not a flush and usually not a queen, so this is just a really tough spot, which i think is a lot easier if you size the bet down pre and on the flop

it's super close between a bet/shove river, check raise all in and check fold...you really have to know what your table image is and what you think villain thinks you have because you have the only AA KK in your range, a lot of the board and your hand block villains calling range, so he's very narrow here and you may be chopping at best or charging JdJx....this might be a check/fold, it's not an easy spot. I think it's a lot easier if you size everything down a little bit and this hand plays multiway very well, i'm perfectly comfortable playing this 4 way but i go for low variance lines as a preference and i give you that it's not the most +ev way, just the least variance way

Last edited by KT ART; 08-01-2021 at 07:44 AM.
2/5 AKs flop top top against very good reg Quote
08-01-2021 , 08:54 AM
also, just think about what range you are pricing in and out when you size it this way...

I can't say exactly what villains range is but if he's raising from the HJ to 15, this is going to be wide and slanted for fat value, hands like QJo, QTs, suited aces, lets say this is.a standard 25% open

now you raise to 90 and what am i doing with a hand like A9s, thats a snap fold right?

if you raise to 45 it's just a snap call or even a reraise, so you are getting a little more value from pricing A9s in even tho that also prices in QJo

so at the price of 90 you've sculpted my range to pitch all A high hands (I may just fold AJo) now i'm just calling with implied odds hands like suited connectors, low pairs, you have now priced out all the hands you dominate

so sizing is super important here pre because you'll be sculpting a calling range....if you actually make it 60, i'm completely on the fence as to if i should call or fold A9s. that is basically the indifference point, around 60 bucks, i don't mind lending the table some equity by under-raising, but i think 60 is the most standard raise size, if the table is sticky i go 75 just to make it a bit hard for them to continue

at 90, snap fold all Ax except AK and AQ, trust me that there are a ton of people i just pitch AQo because this size is "always" AK
2/5 AKs flop top top against very good reg Quote
08-01-2021 , 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KT ART
also, just think about what range you are pricing in and out when you size it this way...

I can't say exactly what villains range is but if he's raising from the HJ to 15, this is going to be wide and slanted for fat value, hands like QJo, QTs, suited aces, lets say this is.a standard 25% open

now you raise to 90 and what am i doing with a hand like A9s, thats a snap fold right?

if you raise to 45 it's just a snap call or even a reraise, so you are getting a little more value from pricing A9s in even tho that also prices in QJo

so at the price of 90 you've sculpted my range to pitch all A high hands (I may just fold AJo) now i'm just calling with implied odds hands like suited connectors, low pairs, you have now priced out all the hands you dominate

so sizing is super important here pre because you'll be sculpting a calling range....if you actually make it 60, i'm completely on the fence as to if i should call or fold A9s. that is basically the indifference point, around 60 bucks, i don't mind lending the table some equity by under-raising, but i think 60 is the most standard raise size, if the table is sticky i go 75 just to make it a bit hard for them to continue

at 90, snap fold all Ax except AK and AQ, trust me that there are a ton of people i just pitch AQo because this size is "always" AK
If it's "always" AK then I can profitably squeeze here a lot with this sizing then right? With my 56s and other worse hands? Why do we want to price in worse hands 4 ways? With AKs against 3 other hands the other 3 could have like QJo, 77, 9Ts, we have ~35% equity. Whereas heads up we are ahead or coin flipping, where we can get a fold from a lot of hands with a cbet. 77 probably isn't calling down on a Q high board.

With everything you've said about this hand, and other hands I've read in your history. I'm leaning towards the fact you are a troll.

You don't seem to understand the concept of the game. We don't want to play multiway, we want to take down the dead money or go heads up. If one person calls $90 that doesn't mean the others will as well so you're wrong about that too.

So we want to get stacks in on the turn or river? For what reason exactly? What hands call us that we are beating? He's never calling with KJ, KT, JJ, TT. Makes absolutely no sense.
2/5 AKs flop top top against very good reg Quote
08-01-2021 , 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phraust
If it's "always" AK then I can profitably squeeze here a lot with this sizing then right? .
yes sir and u should

i thought about this hand a little and it's definitely a check fold on the turn

you will absolutely not get small suited connectors enough of the time to balance

you do not need cards here...if you are raising all your AKs to 90 here you actually need to have completely random hands in your range, and believe it or not, there's nothing wrong with it, you could have a completely random hand and raise to 90 and if you are going to do that with AKs you need to do it with a random hand about 3 times for every 2 times with AKs

this is actually a spot where you should be going 90 with random hands because this spot will not come up often enough to just have AKs and low suited connectors, you actually need to have random, low suited connectors are rarer than pairs, there aren't enough of them in the deck...but if they fold to 90 enough then what do your cards matter? they matter only to make sure you get called enough for 90 with hands you dominate, so the next time you get an LP raise and 3 calls, try this play again without looking at your cards, then your only concern is how often they will fold and i can tell you, its enough to make it worthwhile to not open your hand

this is LP low raise followed by 3 calls, i.e., weak action, so a good player on the BB should be stealing this a LOT

Last edited by KT ART; 08-01-2021 at 06:39 PM.
2/5 AKs flop top top against very good reg Quote
08-01-2021 , 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phraust
With AKs against 3 other hands the other 3 could have like QJo, 77, 9Ts, we have ~35% equity.
So we want to get stacks in on the turn or river? For what reason exactly? What hands call us that we are beating? He's never calling with KJ, KT, JJ, TT. Makes absolutely no sense.
i don't like getting stacks in here, i actually like just abandoning ship

Ummmm, your right about the equity but 35% 4 way could be more money and i think at this level i have a big advantage post so i know i can get away with it

there is no wrong raise size here because it's a top hand but there is at least one that is 0ev, and it's probably around 60 or 65, every other sizing is exploitable, but there isn't a thing wrong with being exploitable when holding AKs coz it's just going to win a lot at showdown

my only problem with your particular sizing is that you have to have a sort of reckless image to balance it and not play your hand face up
2/5 AKs flop top top against very good reg Quote
08-01-2021 , 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KT ART
so the next time you get an LP raise and 3 calls, try this play again without looking at your cards
Ok, confirmed troll
2/5 AKs flop top top against very good reg Quote
08-02-2021 , 02:53 AM
Less pre less otf ckf nut low turn. Lose 150.
2/5 AKs flop top top against very good reg Quote

      
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