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2/5: AK vs lag 2/5: AK vs lag

02-03-2015 , 07:41 AM
V is extremely laggy, raising or limp calling every hand on a tight, nitty table.. Isn't afraid to make big moves or call downs

V called down a triple barrel from another player on J76J5 fdotf board with AQo.

Also, Hero has been playing fairly tight.. In an earlier hand, V openlimped in lp (yeah, he limp calls sometimes), hero raised to $45 in sb with AA, V called. Flop came KJ6r, V calls $75, turn 8, V shoves over hero's $150 for $200 ish more... Hero called and V flipped over J8hh and river paired the board with a 2, counterfeiting V.

So now Hero knows V will call anything otf trying to bust big hands ott.

Onto the hand..

V limps in mp, hero raises to $45 in sb with AKo, V calls

Flop ($100): K84r
Hero bets $75, V calls

Turn ($250): 6r
Hero ??? (Have $400 behind)

Are we bet folding to a raise?
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 07:46 AM
Given villain's stationy play in other hands you absolutely should be looking for 3 streets of value here. If he is actually laggy and not afraid to make big moves you probably can't fold the turn, but it seems like he's just a big fat station and you should be able to fold to a turn raise.
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 07:48 AM
What is V's stack size?
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roberbro23
What is V's stack size?
Has Hero covered.
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian O'Nolan
Given villain's stationy play in other hands you absolutely should be looking for 3 streets of value here. If he is actually laggy and not afraid to make big moves you probably can't fold the turn, but it seems like he's just a big fat station and you should be able to fold to a turn raise.
True. So going further...

Hero bets $150, V calls

River: 7
Hero ???
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 08:30 AM
Well, not a great runout. He probably gets to the river with a fair bit of stuff that's 2 pair or a straight. He also can have Kx (and maybe even stuff like A8...?). If you think the limp preflop weights his range significantly more towards smaller SCs and away from JKo type hands than prob c/f; otherwise I'd still stick the rest in.
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 08:33 AM
Grunch

You created an SPR of 4.5 preflop and now you are asking if you fold to a raise with TPTK on a blank turn? No.

I would need more evidence that villain *only* goes past turn with big hands (and that he know what a big hand is). You have given one data point which is noteworthy but does not establish a pattern.

I bet 1/2 pot on turn.
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 08:52 AM
I have a villian just like this in my regular game. Very tricky player bc can have any two cards. With villains like this, you can't always check and let him bet, though often that's a great tactic if you are sure he will bet when checked to.
In this case: raise bigger preflop. This type of V is almost never limping or slow playing a big hand bc he's getting action on every hand. So bigger pre as your AK is almost always ahead.
Then, bigger on the flop. These villains who call everything with middle pair, with any runner runner draw, you have to bomb the flop and get max value.
As played, you bet 75 into a 100 pot. You have TPTK and V is smart enough to put you on that hand and is calling with any piece so bet pot, not three-quarters pot.
Turn, pot is 250, you bet 150. Again, I think a bigger bet. This V will often float flop, fold river if the odds are not there. Against this type of player, and with your starting stack, you want to be able to shove the turn. As played, Bet pot on turn.
As played, OTR, you're probably going to have to grit your teeth and check call any bet. Villain is smart enough to bluff here but will only call if he has you beat. Absent further reads, river is check call. Vs range is any two cards, but you beat a lot of his holdings.
But, when playing this kind of V: 45 preflop may be good, but maybe a little bigger. Let's say 50. Then OTF, bet pot (110). OTT, bet pot or shove. From description, you started hand with just over 500, so in this scenario, turn shove works.
This kind of V especially thrives from betting river scare cards and getting good players to fold one pair hands. He is going to have a hand now and again, but you have to be ready to play big pots with him and to play them fast.

Last edited by Dutchstreetfish; 02-03-2015 at 08:54 AM. Reason: Typos
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 09:32 AM
I bet around 150 on the turn and against this opponent I'm either stacking or getting stacked. All in on river. I think we're good here. If not I reload and bet more on all streets with this guy in the hand
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzypants
V is extremely laggy, raising or limp calling every hand on a tight, nitty table.. Isn't afraid to make big moves or call downs

V called down a triple barrel from another player on J76J5 fdotf board with AQo.

Also, Hero has been playing fairly tight.. In an earlier hand, V openlimped in lp (yeah, he limp calls sometimes), hero raised to $45 in sb with AA, V called. Flop came KJ6r, V calls $75, turn 8, V shoves over hero's $150 for $200 ish more... Hero called and V flipped over J8hh and river paired the board with a 2, counterfeiting V.

So now Hero knows V will call anything otf trying to bust big hands ott.

Onto the hand..

V limps in mp, hero raises to $45 in sb with AKo, V calls

Flop ($100): K84r
Hero bets $75, V calls

Turn ($250): 6r
Hero ??? (Have $400 behind)

Are we bet folding to a raise?
If we hate money we b/f.

Bet/shove turn. There's no way I'm laying down topsies versus this villain for 100BB.
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie
If we hate money we b/f.

Bet/shove turn. There's no way I'm laying down topsies versus this villain for 100BB.
True but this villain KNOWS my range so why would he ever raise with worse ott? In fact, against me, he's probably calling turn only with KQ at worst and folding everything else. So when he raises, I'm always beat.
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 09:55 AM
River is a trivial shove.

Hand is well played, IMO.
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzypants
True but this villain KNOWS my range so why would he ever raise with worse ott? In fact, against me, he's probably calling turn only with KQ at worst and folding everything else. So when he raises, I'm always beat.
Any credible turn bet ties us to the pot - against this particular villain putting in roughly half our stack to fold is a mistake IMO. Deeper, we can b/f if we truly think he's only raising with worse. I'd rather c/f than b/f. Still, this villain is pretty station-y so I'm going to war with topsies.
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 11:40 AM
I'd probably check/ship the turn against this guy. These guys that call the flop with any piece trying to turn two pair usually love to steal pots. If he's the type of V that I'm thinking of, he's firing the turn A LOT when it's check to him in position. He'll think that he can get you to fold JJ/QQ type hands.
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 12:40 PM
130 on the turn. shove river.
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 01:48 PM
I think river is a check/fold because you block TP, the hand you're trying to get value from, and since he's been laggy and raising a lot pre that should all but remove KQ and heavily discount KJ. So all you're really looking to get value from is KT-K9 and K3s-K2s. Imo that range is too thin to target for value when he still has a ton of suited connector and suited 1 gapper-2gapper combos in his range. At the same time he's probably not going to turn TP into a bluff so I think river is a check/fold.
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 03:46 PM
Looks like my opinion is going to differ from the rest...

IMO it will be very hard to get 3 streets of value from a capable LAggy villain with TPTK. Believe that you have two paths to take depending on villain's flop action. I like going for a check/raise on flop with intention of leading all-in on turn...if V checks behind on flop then betting out 1/2 pot on turn and value bet river....don't want to be playing for stacks with TPTK against laggy villain who has position by the river.

As played, you're in a tough spot. Believe that betting only folds out worse and gets called by better. Close between ch/call and ch/fold. Would simply have to go off any live available reads.

On a side note...don't think betting flop and check/shoving turn is bad either.

Last edited by OSUTexan; 02-03-2015 at 03:53 PM.
2/5: AK vs lag Quote
02-03-2015 , 03:58 PM
Crai on the turn. Same as jesse123. He's calling the flop with any king, any piece. If you check the turn, he's gonna try to steal.

I expect him to bet 100-150 on turn, and tank-hero call with any K.
2/5: AK vs lag Quote

      
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