Hey guys!

Hero/HJ(1700) Young 20s white, playing fairly ABC.

Villian/BTN(800) Young 20s white, no real reads, seems fairly solid.

BTN straddles 10

Folds to hero who bets 30 with AK

BTN raises to 80

Hero calls

HU
FLOP(167) QT7

Check-Check

HU
TURN(167) 4

Hero checks
Villian bets 135
Hero?

Comments on all streets please!

I would 4bet/fold in this spot. I don't give much credit to button raises and if he is competent he may think you are just trying to pick up the pot in late position.

As played I guess I'd call and see what happens on river.

i might raise him back big pre and commit.

probably would lead out into him on the flop.

on turn as is i would have bet

What does your range look like when you check flop/turn in this spot? Competent players are going to make your life miserable on turns/rivers when you're OOP with a seemingly capped range. Just something to think about.

4betting has to be pretty bad against a live unknown

most of these guys dont 3bet AQ/AJ/KQ like ever... they hardly even 3bet bluff

folding preflop is not going to be the worst thing in the world here until we have a better read on the player. it seems nitty, but against the majority of the 2/5 population, even players who seem solid, there is just not enough 3betting going on to justify calling with this hand. we are often dominated or a slight dog. and often times when we bink and ace or king otf, we dont get any value from QQ/JJ or we lose a big pot vs AA/KK

as played, fold turn. this is going to be QQ/TT a decent portion and JJ which also isnt folding after you check twice to him.

Young guy in his 20's on the button where he straddled and you think he isn't 3betting those hands or worse? I'm sorry but I would give no credit to this guy. We look like we are raising in late position trying to possibly take away the pot...he has $10 in there and doesn't want to give it up...thinks we are full of **** so he raises.

Like 4b/ fold as well I think he will be calling dominated range most of the time as well as 88-QQ then cbet flop

The hand is a lot harder to play when you give him the lead while you are oop

most young guys in their 20s are abc tag nits who never 3bet anything except QQ+ and sometimes AK

its very unlikely a rando in his 20s is 3betting his button as a bluff here

i guess sometimes they do it, but not very often.

the issue is, they almost never 3bet bluff with hands like a3 or k4 and they prefer to flat with their value hands like aq, aj and their IO hands like 87s so whats left to 3bet with? pretty much nothing...

not sure where you play where most 20somethings are 3betting light at a high frequency

I'm not saying that this V is 3 betting light but he is in the perfect spot to raise light. That's why I think 4b/folding is fine. He ships everything that has us crushed and folds all his bs that I don't want to play oop against with AK.


Deadfish....did you see what V bought in with? Seen any hands he has shown down? What makes you think he is solid?

even by that logic 4betting is still not as good as flatting.

if we 4bet he folds his worse Ax and Kx 100% of the time pretty much which is a disaster when we can flat and let him hit a dominated pair.

if we 4bet we basically turn a very strong hand that is ahead of what you perceive villains 3betting range to be into a bluff

but yea idk, ive never played in florida. maybe every 20something over there is capable of 3betting a wide range. but ive played 2/5 in a lot of places and most 20somethings will not 3bet light without a firm dynamic. "20 something, no real reads, seems solid" is not enough to ascertain that this kid will 3bet with anything except QQ+.

I can't remeberany hands that went to showdown but a few things come to mind when I was profiling him.

1) came to table with 100bbs (150cap)
2) put name on for a table change (assuming he saw something he liked at the other 2/5 I.E. table selecting)
3) when a seat became available he moved from my immediate right to 2 from my left assuming he wanted to get position on my 350bb stack.
4) one hand that comes to mind was when he iso'd a limped pot, got it HU and barreled 1/2 pot on 3 streets with a 923 J 6 board. I'll let you guys interpret what that line means.

I'm perfectly fine with him folding his weaker hands because we are OOP and only have AK. I just don't like flatting because now we are playing oop in a hand where we gave up the lead. I also think it helps us define his range a bit more because to me he has a wider range than QQ. What happens when we hit an K high flop and he has AA and then we lose 160bb pot?

Are you taking into the whole dynamic of the straddle? Have you ever played with a straddle?

So do you treat all unknowns that 3bet as QQ+?

lets see,,, person puts up a straddle which is for action.

then player opens the pot. then the action straddle raises the pot.

now all of a sudden we are looking to get out . why? if so do you fold ace king when you get raised.

You should definitely put this in the OP next time.

Taking all this into consideration I'm definitely 4 betting and I probably call it off

You're fine with him folding Ax and Kx? Him putting money into the pot with weaker Ax and Kx is how we make money. If he has AQ and we flat and flop comes Axx we are winning a big pot. If we 4bet we lose that opportunity and only isolate ourselves vs a range of KK+.

We should be 4betting either for value as a bluff. The reasons you described for 4betting are basically to find out where you're at. That's not a good reason to raise.

If his range is wide and his continuing range vs a 4bet is narrow (this is what you said you perceive his ranges to be) then I'm willing to lose a 160bb pot when its AA vs AK on a Kxx flop. Because a lot of the time we'll stack him when he has KQ or stack him when its Axx and he has AQ/AJ

Yes ive played a lot with btn straddles.

I feel that the majority of live players don't 3bet without QQ+ so yes, until I see evidence thats basically what I range people when they 3bet for the first timr

4 bet get it in.

Also raise preflop bigger

Edit: as played, c/r turn to 360.

3x raise pre looks really donkish. We are way underrepped to just flat his 8x 3 bet pre from the straddler.

I would repop to 220 pre and re-evaluate from there.

AP, lead turn for 135.

if i am going to fold ace king if raised back i dont raise with it. its too good of a money maker to mess up not getting to the flop or winning before the flop which is usually preferable.

next best is getting all in against a not too big stack of someone who isnt a nit.