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2/5 AA: Turn Gets Raised 2/5 AA: Turn Gets Raised

05-05-2014 , 10:23 PM
2/5 at Borgata. Two villains in this hand.

Villain 1 is MP1. Middle Eastern guy. Basically a standard loose passive calling station. Never folding overpairs, and he keeps announcing what hands he would have made after folding pre-flop. He has about 500.

Villain 2 is MP2. Older Asian guy. He opens pretty light and he has bet 3-bet jammed baby flush draws on the flop twice when it was clear he had no fold equity. Basically a standard bad LAG. Sitting on about 2k.

Hero is a young white kid in a hoodie. I have about 1200 and a loose but not crazy image. I opened J5ss from middle position and stacked AK on A55. But I haven't been caught when running any bluffs so I likely have a tight post flop image.

Pre-Flop: (7)
One limper, both villains over limp. I have red AA in the bb and I make it 30. Both villains flat. Their ranges are basically any pair, any suited connector, most off suit connectors and any broadways.

Flop: (97)
Flop is 652 with 2 hearts and the 6 of diamonds. I bet 70 obviously hoping to get value. Middle eastern guy tank calls. Asian guy calls quickly.

Turn: (300)
The turn is the 3 of diamonds. Board is 2356 two hearts, two diamonds. This is a semi-bad card to get value on as both players will be thinking "Oh no he could haz straight now". I decide to bet 150 hoping to get value from smaller overpairs, random 6x and flush draws.
Middle Eastern guy tank folds. Asian guy raises to 400 straight. I now have about 900 behind and it's 250 to call. Hero?
2/5 AA: Turn Gets Raised Quote
05-05-2014 , 10:39 PM
Although he opens light, what does V2's l/c range look like? Does it include a lot of BW/SCs/SGs/AXs/PPs?

Gross spot, because given his description V2 is at least going to consider raising the flop with a heart draw, and as such pretty much never has a heart draw after quickly calling the flop bet. Additionally we block the NFD, meaning that his heart combinations are significantly reduced. The quick call suggests that he has a medium/weak pair, possibly with a straight draw. Could also be any combination of 78 here.

On the turn, a lot of his flop calling range has becomes 2P or a straight. The only hands we're really beating at this point are 6x, and 78dd, 79dd and 89dd. Whether or not he turns 6x into a bluff is the main question here. If he will turn a pair into a bluff with 6x, 75 type hands then we can shove here, as all his pairs likely have a draw to do along with them, and as described he's likely not folding.

If he won't turn a pair into a bluff, then we have to fold to the turn raise.
2/5 AA: Turn Gets Raised Quote
05-05-2014 , 10:43 PM
Should have mentioned. Both players limp/calling range is similar to their opening ranges, except more weighted to smaller pairs and connectors.
2/5 AA: Turn Gets Raised Quote
05-05-2014 , 10:50 PM
if small pairs and connecters are in their ranges than how can we ever call this turn raise? The only hand we are ahead of is 87. We are behind 66,55,44,33,22 as well all baby SC's.
This is definitely a fold IMO.
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05-05-2014 , 10:54 PM
Is anybody checking the turn or is it an easy b/f?
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05-05-2014 , 11:48 PM
Check turn.
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05-05-2014 , 11:55 PM
I think your sizing on the turn is very good

You can get value from 77-99 and flush draws still. There shouldn't be as many 4x in their range and a set will raise that board a lot of the time - especially the second caller otf.

B/f is good Ott. The Asian guy has b/3b baby flush draws otf. That is much different than calling flop IP and raising turn after you've bet two streets.
2/5 AA: Turn Gets Raised Quote
05-06-2014 , 12:30 AM
It's not an easy bet/fold against the bad lag who can be pretty easily raising with air or value raising thin with 2pair because you have 4x like never or turning a worse pair into a bluff.
2/5 AA: Turn Gets Raised Quote
05-06-2014 , 01:11 AM
Turn looks like a b/f to me
2/5 AA: Turn Gets Raised Quote
05-06-2014 , 02:44 AM
Gross spot, I think I like a check here against this villian because you can control the size of the pot and the fact that it is harder for V to blow you off the hand. V knows that you very rarely have 4x here, so he can easily represent that hand and just raise here a large % of the time to your turn bet. Depending on what V does on the turn, you can either fold or call. If he has a history of floating flop bets and bluffing scary turns I don't mind calling the turn; if he has a flush draw he should check back here most of the time.
2/5 AA: Turn Gets Raised Quote
05-06-2014 , 05:38 AM
I like 35-45 pf vs these villains and our bad position.

I like your cbet sizing. I don't mind c/f turn vs these villains your going to get called again ott or rr because they either have you beat or they know you almost never have a 4 and your range and cant take much heat. your going to have to give up to the rr ott or c/f river very frequently so id lean towards c/f ott even though that might be a little weak I rather find better spots. I just really don't see betting the turn doing too much good for us overall.

yes you can get value ott from villains with a pair or flushdraws, but when you get flatted and your oop otr, soooo many river cards will be bad for you if you weren't beat already, making it impossible to c/c. and even if its a blank your going to check and they will turn their missed fd or one pair hand into a bluff a large % of the time imo due to the board texture and your perceived range and you will be put to the guessing game. they should also be very comfortable value betting 2p or a set vs your range on any river imo fwiw. this spot is going to set you up for big mistakes I think if you do anything besides c/f or b/f turn c/f river. I don't like the ladder very much given my explanation above.
2/5 AA: Turn Gets Raised Quote
05-06-2014 , 07:51 AM
Seems like a good spot to check turn. As played I think it's just a fold, I don't think V has much bluff equity here because hero lead into 2 players on flop and turn so our hands looks like what it is.
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05-06-2014 , 03:24 PM
Thanks guys. I folded and villain said "You got one pair?" And should me the 4 of clubs. My turn bet was more designed to get value from the middle eastern guy who told me that if the Asian guy folded flop he was calling three barrels with 77, "Cause you can have AK". I don't think the Asian guy is making moves on me on that board multi-way so I still think b/f is the correct line even if it does hit their ranges.
2/5 AA: Turn Gets Raised Quote
05-06-2014 , 03:58 PM
The bet on the turn is fine. These two can certainly call with worse. The fold to the raise is also fine. Not only do you have just one pair, you may be drawing dead, and you are out of position. Well played.
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