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2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up 2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up

03-06-2012 , 11:54 AM
Reraising to 300 is probably the strongest possible line, as in the hands we are repping, which is why I don't want to do it. Basically if we jam he might make the mistake and call with two pair or a set, whereas if we reraise to 300 and he calls and the board doesn't pair on the turn he might c/f and if we reraise to 300 I don't see how we can ever fold if he 4-bet jams the flop and tbh I don't see how we can ever be good unless he has a set.
2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up Quote
03-06-2012 , 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatsHowSheGoes
I prefer to call here in position.

If he has AX (Spade), he is firing 100% of the turns that miss, and if the board comes spade you can soul read and get away.

If we raise he is only going to call with bigger flushes, i can see him folding out AXs here unless its the AK(Spade).

Call and let him bomb the turn.
C'mon now, he isn't folding a set
2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up Quote
03-06-2012 , 12:10 PM
Preflop is a bit ambitious against 2 players including one solid one. I am pretty sure it's at best borderline and likely slightly -ev. Fine against just the old man.

The fact that you didn't know pot size is obviously a leak and it also somewhat widens villain's raising range. Not much given that he is an old man, but some. If i continue I am committed I always ship as played. I think if you are not committed against a nit then calling and folding turn can be fine since he might raise 2pr/set but not bet turn unless he has a flush at least some of the time.

Personally I just ship flop 100bbs deep.

Also - the other leaks in the way you played the hand (preflop, being aware of pot size, paying attention to the action, not chastizing the dealer even half-jokingly) are probably much more important for you to address to your overall game than the specific decision on the flop.
2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up Quote
03-06-2012 , 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsy
Preflop is a bit ambitious against 2 players including one solid one. I am pretty sure it's at best borderline and likely slightly -ev. Fine against just the old man.

The fact that you didn't know pot size is obviously a leak and it also somewhat widens villain's raising range. Not much given that he is an old man, but some. If i continue I am committed I always ship as played. I think if you are not committed against a nit then calling and folding turn can be fine since he might raise 2pr/set but not bet turn unless he has a flush at least some of the time.

Personally I just ship flop 100bbs deep.

Also - the other leaks in the way you played the hand (preflop, being aware of pot size, paying attention to the action, not chastizing the dealer even half-jokingly) are probably much more important for you to address to your overall game than the specific decision on the flop.
I completely agree, this is probably the worst hand I have ever played

That being said, raising 56s IP here is at worst a small leak
2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up Quote
03-06-2012 , 12:25 PM
I never said he would fold out sets.

Sets vs our hand 35%
AX spade vs our hand 27%,

Again I just call here and let him fire again on the turn. We have a lot of his range crushed here, so why wouldnt we call and let him hang himself.

He pretty much has to fire ALL turns.

If you raise he can easily fold 2 pair hands, AX's aside from AK.
2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up Quote
03-06-2012 , 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11t
Reraising to 300 is probably the strongest possible line, as in the hands we are repping, which is why I don't want to do it.
You're assuming that old men would even know anything about hand reading. The reason why I am going with a smaller raise is because I think he would fold to a sheer size of a $500 jam with all of his < two pairs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11t
Basically if we jam he might make the mistake and call with two pair or a set, whereas if we reraise to 300 and he calls and the board doesn't pair on the turn he might c/f
No one is going to check/fold set on the turn after calling our raise on the flop, and little chance he's folding two pairs either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11t
and if we reraise to 300 I don't see how we can ever fold if he 4-bet jams the flop and tbh I don't see how we can ever be good unless he has a set.
Do you or do you not think you have the best hand on the flop? You kind of have to make up your mind here, because there's no folding after the re-raise.
2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up Quote
03-06-2012 , 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatsHowSheGoes
I never said he would fold out sets.

Sets vs our hand 35%
AX spade vs our hand 27%,

Again I just call here and let him fire again on the turn. We have a lot of his range crushed here, so why wouldnt we call and let him hang himself.

He pretty much has to fire ALL turns.

If you raise he can easily fold 2 pair hands, AX's aside from AK.
Read carefully, villain can't have Ax of spades.

The reason why I like a raise here is because if villain doesn't have any spade, another spade on the turn would completely shut him down.

If he has a set, he is probably going to check/call the turn, and I doubt we're shoving $400 on the turn with our mediocre spade. If he missed the river, he's likely going to check/fold, and we pretty much lost the opportunity to get his remaining stack.
2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up Quote
03-06-2012 , 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaUlater
You're assuming that old men would even know anything about hand reading. The reason why I am going with a smaller raise is because I think he would fold to a sheer size of a $500 jam with all of his < two pairs.



No one is going to check/fold set on the turn after calling our raise on the flop, and little chance he's folding two pairs either.



Do you or do you not think you have the best hand on the flop? You kind of have to make up your mind here, because there's no folding after the re-raise.
I get what you are saying but if he is calling the 3-bet with two pair IMO he is calling a jam and if he calls a 3-bet and a spade hits the turn (or the board pairs) we are in a tough spot and getting like 5:1 we just can't fold so I'd rather be a monkey and ship the flop.

And yes, I think we have the best hand a good % of the time.
2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up Quote
03-06-2012 , 12:35 PM
I know he cant have A of spades.

Thats why I wrote A X(spade), not A(spade) X.
2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up Quote
03-06-2012 , 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11t
I get what you are saying but if he is calling the 3-bet with two pair IMO he is calling a jam and if he calls a 3-bet and a spade hits the turn (or the board pairs) we are in a tough spot and getting like 5:1 we just can't fold so I'd rather be a monkey and ship the flop.

And yes, I think we have the best hand a good % of the time.
Whether he's more likely to call a jam or a smaller 3-bet is matter of opinion, so I guess I'll agree to disagree.

I messed up a bit on my raise size, I think $300 is a bit too big with a hand like ours. I would go $100 more on top of villain's CR to around $210.
2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up Quote
03-06-2012 , 12:49 PM
But then he is getting odds to draw to a single high spade! This is why I hate this spot and its all due to my own idiocy.

I suppose though that the main moral of the story is: get your head in the game!
2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up Quote
03-06-2012 , 12:58 PM
Don't forget we are calculating against his entire range.
2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up Quote
03-06-2012 , 01:00 PM
Hell of a spot. Everything he has is either way ahead of you or can catch up if the board pairs or another flush card comes along.

1 in 500 odds roughly to flop flush over flush. Unless I am absolutely sure the old nit has a kx flush, then I am shoving here a 100% of the time.
2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up Quote
03-06-2012 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11t
Jesus ****ing christ, sometimes I think you are ******ed.

I didn't realize that the flop was MW, I thought it was HU and all of this goes into the hand and why I bet 1/3 the pot instead of 2/3 the pot.

Also 56s plays great IP, the golfer has a weak range or else he would have raised PF and the old man is c/folding most flops. Why wouldn't you raise and c-bet and win?

It is like printing money.

the issue is that jamming over the c/r is a pretty large bet and what would be better:

1) jam
2) call and jam a non spade turn
Its not a tricky spot. If you have been in this spot before.

Your never r/f here, so I wouldn't raise. I flat and see how he plays the hand ott. I wouldn't just jam ott. You want to jam for value and you don't get value from jamming with a 6 high flush.

You get value owned when you jam. The key to the hand is try to win the hand with out resistance your hand is weak and vulnerable.
2/5 - 56s in LP flops a flush and I mess it up Quote

      
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