I would ignore the advice on betting small. I think your bet size was good. Just remember, how are you making most of your money at 1/2 and 2/5? Value betting and value betting hard. An ace is not folding no matter what. A flush draw could very likely call your $80 cbet even though they aren't getting the right odds. They don't care about odds. Start building a pot. The chances that one of the five or six callers has a hand willing to call a decent bet is pretty good. Value town.

Checking is not a terrible play but is only applicable at the right table. That table would have to have almost all LAG players who like to pounce on weakness. They would see your check as KK or similar and take a stab with a FD or whatever. Then you could c/r. Since those tables aren't the norm, revert to building a pot. Betting 1/3 pot or so will encourage 3 callers and if someone hits their hand, it could very well be disguised and cause you to lose a lot. Don't do that.

A lot of people are giving way too much credit to the villains you see at 2/5. Most of them still suck IMO. They chase draws, can't fold TP, and play too many hands. Take advantage when you hit.

Here's the thing...what are those callers going to hit their hand with on this flop? FD's do not have implied odds b/c hero is c/f if a heart hits. FD's are not getting enough odds to call agains hero. (It is good to have this flexibility - with so many preflop callers, there is a good chance someone has two hearts.)

What else might they be able to hit there hands with? A small pocket pair might hit a set, but such villains are getting two outs. Even with implied odds you want a call from anyone dumb enough to do this. (Again, with small raises, hero might be able to get off his hand if a villain does hit a set on the flop or later.)

What has more outs than a pp? No one is playing 5-deuce. The answer...a weaker ace has three outs. Again, you want a call here, even for 1/3 pot for same reasons above.

The problem - you can only do this against a uniformly passive table. Anyone not passive may respond to your 1/3 pot bets by coming over the top in which case you will need to fold. (Chances of someone hitting a set on the flop in a six way hand is significant.)

I like your logo by the way. I hear they are going to throw some grey in there.

This reminds me a little of two hands I played...

1:
I raise AK to 30 and get 4 callers. Flop comes K47hh. I lead for 60 into ~150. One fold then a guy instajams about 500 total. I didn't take too long to call. I knew he would never do this with 2pair+. Unfortunately his 56o (no hearts) got there, but obviously a very profitable spot.

2:
I raise AA to 15 UTG (because of table dynamics, thought a 3b was likely). Flop goes 8 way I think. Ugghh.. It was two tone/K-high. I lead 40 into ~120. I get two callers to my left, then young spewy Asian BB raises to 200. I flat along with one of the guys to my left and get my other 400 in on the turn when the flush card misses (other guy folds his FD to my shove). BB says he missed his FD on the river and I scoop - more than doubling my stack, having gotten most of my money in against presumably 7 outs on the turn...


Point is if you're good at making reads and putting people on a range, you don't need to just always fold. You welcome people making plays at you with inferior hands because you're going to be good enough to make the right folds and right calls enough of the time that responding to raises correctly becomes a very profitable part of your game... FWIW, I have definitely gotten my money in bad plenty of times. And I'm sure I've folded many many times when I was ahead. Nobody's perfect. But I think overall, I make the correct read more than enough of the time. By betting smaller on the flop, I feel I can still get plenty of value on the turn and river -- when I have a better feel for villains' ranges.

We have to shove the turn. Yes it's an overbet but it folds out flush draws but will get called my all lesser 2pr hands. The Villian never has a set here as he wud raise the flop. The reason is say shove is bc if we bet say 150ish on the turn we are pot committed on river. what is our move if a club hits the river? If we check can we call his all in bet? If no we shud shove the turn. If we bet the river ourselves then we shud be shoving the turn as well. Either way we can't allow ourselves to get pot committed on river OOP when we have virtual nuts on turn

this thread is tilting me.

What hands do people honestly think are calling 1/3rd pot that aren't calling 2/3rds pot. And don't say any Ax, because they just aren't folding Ax.

Though I dont think Ax usually folds to 2/3 pot, it definitely sometimes will.. I mean, Im not gonna feel so great calling 2/3 pot with AJ... But I dont think this is nearly as important as asking what line has the best chance of getting multiple streets from AT or AJ. While these hands might usually call 80, i just dont see them stacking off very often on the turn bomb that will follow... Anyway, truth is I've been going back and forth somewhat on this. Im not sure - maybe larger is better for most players.. I do know that going somewhat small on the flop and following up with a more proportional turn bet has worked very well for me though. I think it may partly be due to my style of play - pretty laggy, wide range pre, i play my draws aggressively, etc. Going smaller on the flop as a rule enables me to stay more balanced and make better use of my ability to make reads.

looks like the 2/5 games i play are so different to the ones you guys play. if the assumption that you are making is true, that players are not folding Ax, then betting big and shoving turn looks fine.

What is your UTG range?