2/5 and a straddle is happening. We are in MP and we have UTG and UTG1 limp in. We make it $45 and it folds to UTG and he calls. UTG1 makes it $200.

UTG has everyone covered. UTG1 has $500 total and Hero has $600.

How do we play this hand at these stack sizes?

its either fold or ship, and im shipping

So I tanked and thought about the obvious limp raise here. I am thinking AK makes sense or hoping for QQ. UTG coming in confuses me as well. So shipping seems like the right play!

But I think how can I get UTG in the hand still? calling? Get more money in the pot and get in n a non-A flop? Folding KK pre seems very hard to do.

this is only 50bb since it's a straddle easy ship

Never folding never calling always shipping.

The "call to see an ace free flop" idea is bad. If he calls with AJ or w/e he will often fold to a flop ship on a flop with no ace. If an ace comes and he bets (it appears) you will fold. Both are -EV.

Dont get fancy, just shove.

Pretty easy shove. Hand is only interesting if you both have like 250+bbs

Standard is ship obv. but not necessarily optimal. We have no info. on villain so we cant do any better out of the gate. Depending on villain etc, flatting can be optimal here.

straddle is on every hand?
Well I would say ship anyway...
no way you can fold...
and calling would be a huge mistake IMO...

SHIP IT!!
If he have AA... manage to hit a K!! :P

Ae we ever trying to get the other player in this hand with QQ JJ TT AK AQ?

Agsin, we are playing fairly short here so its not deep enough to get too fancy

I knew (as with many posts) that I would get --Ship it pre and never flat. But I think flatting has its advntages in this spot. But Can I ever fold this hand? I mean 2 limpers and one flats and the other 3 bets me. It screams AA but I cant find a fold.

+1

i dont think many people understand this concept but straddle always makes your eff bb half of what it is. i see posts all the time, "need help 300bb deep" but its 150bb which isnt crazy deep.

i ship here ainec

What we have here is a limp+3bet from a dude out of position. This could be AA or KK but since we got two Kings the opponent is more likely to have AA. I'm just doing what I do at the tables. I don't see QQ- or AK put this play. Now, we also have bad relative position. If we call we have the UTG behind and even if UTG doesn't repops a 4bet what we have on the flop will either be a lead from UTG of a check and have UTG+1 continuation bet and we are back to the same situation with UTG behind and us being first to act after UTG check and UTG+1 cb. I would say this is a shove all-in of fold right now. I cannot see a good call for 1/3 of effective stacks.

I had this situation twice last week with ES=100bb, and in both instances I shoved all-in. Won the first with a set hitting a King on the turn and lost the second against AA. Those are very high variance plays.

AT,

how did the hand play out?

Some of this is read/player dependant. If the table has been playing with LP raises but also loose (many limpers, and several always calling the raise) then this will often be AA played for the repop. In that case I find a lay down.

If the player doing the repop is very loose and has done similar calls then this is a shove.

But I don't think it's "wow I have KK shove" mentality. For me this would never be a call, so it's fold or shove.

Well, why can't you find a fold?
Poker is a relative situational game. The cards we've got in our hand means nothing because all becomes relative in two seconds. If we got KK and the dude's got AA is the same thing he would be with 88 against our 44. If he would raise or reraise preflop, what we do?We fold, Right? See, folding 44 it seems easy but folding KK for some feels hard. Why is that? There's no difference between us having 66 and dude AK or we with 66 and dude with 87o. In both situations we are 55/45. A pair against two over cards is always 55/45. So, if we suspect AA, a very uncertain thing to accomplish like perfect read, we fold. You know, I always based my play and my strategy on Jimmy Downtown, God may rest him in pace, "If you want to make moves at the table in NL you should have no attachments on the flop. Allow nothing in your hand that you cannot walk out in two seconds flat, if you spot the heat around the corner" – That’s the discipline. It is what it is. It’s that, or we both better go do something else. Always remember that.

My unique strategy is a result of my analytical efforts along with a few others and it wasn't stumbled upon, it’s consciously constructed for no limit Vegas cash games. My strategy would not be possible without some people I respect very much. By studying their work, I developed my own ideas about how to play against the fish in Vegas. The number one and the supreme dude of poker is David Sklansky, author of the best poker books. I feel that it’s a must for anybody playing serious cash Hold'em to study his work.

AT,

Note: How about after you looked up and see KK, the dealer drops the deck on the floor and declares the hand dead, collects all the cards, reshuffle the deck and deals new hands to everybody? Did you had to abandon your KK? Do you think this has any long term effect on your results?
- none whatsoever for sure

You know you're reading an AT post when the message is loaded with "I's," "me's" and "my's."

I mean, you have KK.

But the decisions to be completely dependant on UTG+1's tendencies. Is he the type to wake up w/ a wide limp/rr range in a straddled pot where he could be expecting someone to raise the 10 dollar limps in an attempt to scoop pre?

Basically, his move is smart at most 2/5 tables imo, but because it is smart and without any info on UTG+1, im going to go ahead and assume his limp/rr range here is wider than AA. There's usually 1 player at almost any given 2/5 table capable of thinking "i can back raise and rep AA here and scoop PF"

Getting UTG in is simply a matter of luck. You should just jam, its a 5/10 hand, you're facing a 200 dollar raise w/ 600 post 45 initial raise, i get it in. I really dont see a point to fancy play trying to get UTG in on the action. If he comes along he comes along really, unless he's drawing dead preflop, his inclusion only eats up both yours and UTG+1's equity.

I tank flat and UTG does the same...

Flop J104 2 clubs... UTG checks and +1 ships $300.

Very read dependant situation but im shipping 9/10 times against most unknowns with those stack sizes.

Stacks are bad.... I am getting 1:3 and still have an overpair. I feel like I have to call. I think for 2 min and call. I know what I am going to see though. But I hope for ak and qq.

I call and utg folds face up qq. Turn x river a he shows aa.

BBV is -----------> that way.

I don't think bbv.

Its a tough spot on every street.

Folding KK at live poker IMO comes up far more often than most think or ever in life do, yes. Is this the spot? With no info. on villain my answer is absolutely no. Players can do the strangest things with 88, JJ, AJs etc. so with not even what villain looks like, Im not folding. Now if it is a little sweet old lady (i muck), if young aggro (i flat), if loose/spewy gambler (i shove) and so on.

Folding KK really requires having a good feel for villains range and emotions at the specific time. Its a fine line and honestly you CAN gain reciprocity by folding well in these spots, but will never lose reciprocity here because others will NEVER EVER fold KK in this spot. (Something to think about)