V1 (covers): In short, a whale. More specifically a MAWG, limp-calls pretty much any two suited, most unsuited connectors, and all broadways. Will raise ATo+ and most pairs. Tends to make small donk/feeler-bets with draws/pairs of varying strength, has bombed each street as the PFR with sets on drawy boards, haven't seen how he plays monsters when not the PFR. Won't fold TP+ pretty much ever.

V2 ($275-ish): 30s white male, arrived at the table about 1.5 hours ago, has been playing about 25% of his hands, of which he had been limping most of them, but when he raised it was typically to $15-20, however this was only over 0-2 limpers. Has been giving up on most flops and hasn't been to showdown yet, and as such is down from his $400 initial buy-in.

Hero ($700): 20s Indian, playing probably the fewest hands at the table, but pretty much always for a raise, has been only really winning pots without showdown so far.

Onto the hand:

V1 limps UTG, 2 more limps (one tending to limp-fold, the other limp-call), HJ is telegraphing a fold (he is a TAG who will raise his range here usually) hero over-limps with 44 in MP, HJ folds, V2 raises to $25 from CO, folded to V1 who calls, folded to hero who calls.

Flop ($94): A88

V1 checks, hero checks, V2 checks behind fairly quickly.

Turn ($94): 4

V1 bets $25, hero raises to $80, V2 insta-ships for about $250, V1 folds, hero?

I'm assuming pre-flop is fairly standard once V1 calls the PFR (I was folding if it was folded to me).

V2 is pretty much exclusively representing 88 and AA here for only 4 combos, but what is he taking this line with besides a boat? I can't imagine him raising any 8x combos pre-flop, and I find it hard to believe he'd choose a spot like this to spas out given that he would have likely c-bet if he had larcenous thoughts.


Also, thoughts on my flop raise? I didn't think V1 pretty much ever had Ax here since he would have probably donked flop with it, but I expected him to still call with his diamond draws and obviously continue with 8x.

lol what?
Remember your hand is under-repped/disguised. Wont be surprised if v2 plays AK and 8x this way.

If you really want to assign him a nutted range, don't forget to add A8 too.
But again boats are only part of his range.

We have every reason to suspect that Villain 2 has a big A, and a very modest reason to suspect he has an 8.

Sometimes there really are monsters under the bed.

But the pot is already $200.

Surely we can find a call here?

Easy snap.

Raise/folding turn here is so cringe worthy

Villain shipping with better than 44 on this board is even worse than him shipping with Ax on this board. It would be absolutely the worst. Im glad that you are thinking through decisions but in the end this is a super easy call.

If he is bad enough to ship 88 here with position with another player behind what else is he bad enough to ship here? 22? 32off?

I think he can take this line with a big ace or 8x. Axdd makes sense as well; he turned a flush draw and has reason to think he's got solid equity if not already ahead. With your raise and him being so short stacked, just calling sets him up for an awkward river bet so shoving almost all of his range makes sense. With effective stacks being so short I think this needs to be a snap call.

snap call I think. he never ships his boats here. If he has AA or 88 (like never) here he calls to give a chance to the whale to call. then he can wait in position for the rest of the money.
Ax of diamonds is what you see here a lot or maybe a crazy bluff with ATC .

So snap and collect the chips

Really???

This guy started the hand with well less than 100 BB's and you want to fold a FH?

Take your cooler, and snap call.

seriously dude? Are you honestly trying to come up with an excuse to fold this hand? I don't even think this is an issue of weak or strong relative hand-strength.

Given your reads on V2 it sounds like he's a very cautious player, not fighting for many pots, only wanting to get involved when he has a "lock" on the hand, etc. Since he's been so passive up to this point, it also sounds like he passes up on spots to extract value. Taking this into consideration, I think it's more likely that he's checking back flop with Ax in the hopes of controlling the pot-size and getting to showdown more easily while disguising his hand-strength, and less likely that he shows up with AA. Now that the turn brings in a diamond draw, he feels compelled to shove for protection. THAT story makes sense. If he had a hand better than 44, why would he want to scare off V1 from sticking around? He wouldn't. AA has nothing to worry about on this turn and would probably just flat your raise in the hopes that V1 joins the party.

In the long run, you're making way more mistakes by folding to this shove than you are by calling it. But I agree with the poster above. If V2 DOES have you beat, take your cooler like a man, and move on to the next hand. Set-up hands happen often in poker. Your edge comes from keeping a level-head when these scenarios happen, not from folding coz you're afraid of running into the nuts.

I call given effective stacks are so short. Deeper, I reconsider but like others have pointed out, we've got a very under-repped hand.

Never folding less than 100bb.

What did you think to gain from asking this?

Yeah... can we at least go ahead and take 88 out of his raising range? If he's slowplaying quads on the flop, he probably isn't 3-bet BLASTING them on the turn.

Same logic goes for AA, btw. Maybe he's jamming with AA here because he thinks you're both committed to the hand. But that would be a very weird thing for him to think.

Trip 8s and AXdd are so much more likely...

Results:



At the time I felt he was going to bet his Ax on the flop, and even if he didn't I really didn't expect him to 3b shove Ax facing a bet and a raise on the turn. Additionally, given his PFR range, he pretty much never has 8x in his range. This line looked so much like a slow-played flopped boat/quads to me that I wondered what he could take this line with on each street. Guess he was just spazzing out.

I agree with Dashy and sierradave that this is more likely either (1) betting to protect against the flush draw coming in with a paired A or (2) raising all in to draw to the nut flush with TP at the moment. You obviously crush both, and I think the range you've put on villain is way too high. It's a call. You're also getting almost 3-1, so you don't have to be good that often in this spot for it to be profitable.

I've seen conservative villains raise pre and check behind their TP Ace in position only to blast the pot on the turn. I also used to be one of those villains. So yeah, this guy can very well be doing that on this board. GII!

My guess, if we want to give him "credit" for not being a total fish, is that he had something like AK or AQ and mucked when he saw that his shove was virtually drawing dead to your boat (two outs; and likely that V1 had one of the outs).