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2/4 TP+FD faces double x/raise on the turn 2/4 TP+FD faces double x/raise on the turn

07-23-2019 , 02:49 AM
Early monday night 2/4 table that is filled to the rim with bad/nit regs, playing mostly ABC poker.

SB: Middle aged middle eastern guy. Fairly passive reg who tends to peddle the nuts. He's probably too wide pre, but postflop aggression is almost exclusively strength. Stack: 500.

CO: Friendly 30's WG reg who might already be on tilt. Started telling me bad beat stories before i even sat down. Moderately aggressive, both pre and post. Probably button clicks quite a bit, even if he isn't tilted. Stack: 1k.

BTN/HERO: 30's WG with winning/aggro image. Been playing snug so far, but both opponents have played me before and probably think i'm somewhat bluffy/spewy. Stack: covers.

Pre:
CO raises to 14.
BTN/Hero calls with QT
SB calls.

Flop (44):
Q54

checks round.

Spoiler:
Can't wait to see the results-oriented flaming of my flop check


Turn:
Q54 7

SB checks,
CO checks,
Hero bets 30,
SB calls,
CO raises to 130
Hero calls,
SB back-raises to 300,
CO calls,
Hero.....?

Well, that escalated quickly!
So in my opinion the SB has a set or straight here almost always, I don't really know what the CO has, 77 seems most likely, but he could also have weirdly played draws here or possibly going berserk with KK+.
I need to call 170 to win 944, so getting 5.5:1, which should be enough. On the other hand, if SB has sets+ and CO has Ahxh, i'm drawing dead.

As always, any feedback on all streets is appreciated, thanks in advance.
Will post results later on.
2/4 TP+FD faces double x/raise on the turn Quote
07-23-2019 , 04:59 AM
Superweird hand. I would just convince myself they don't have a better heart draw and call closing the action and getting direct odds to bink one of my eight outs.

Without being results-oriented I still don't really get why you would want to check the flop.
2/4 TP+FD faces double x/raise on the turn Quote
07-23-2019 , 08:38 AM
How is flaming your flop check results oriented...?
2/4 TP+FD faces double x/raise on the turn Quote
07-23-2019 , 10:23 AM
Not being results oriented -- just good poker oriented -- but bet the flop. Why on earth would you call pre with this hand in position and not bet when checked to?

As played, just fold. Who knows where you are or how many outs you have? You could easily be drawing dead except to runner/runner quads.
2/4 TP+FD faces double x/raise on the turn Quote
07-23-2019 , 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
Not being results oriented -- just good poker oriented -- but bet the flop. Why on earth would you call pre with this hand in position and not bet when checked to?

As played, just fold. Who knows where you are or how many outs you have? You could easily be drawing dead except to runner/runner quads.
I checked flop, because:
- both opponents have very few 5x or 4x in their range, and might not even call a bet with those hands multiway.
- both opponents have very few Q9 or worse.
- I have excellent show down value.
- I block flush draws.
- I can induce turn bluffs with a hand that i never will fold.
- general deception.

I expected flaming, because most of the above reasons can be thrown out the window after the turn action . Regardless i still like my flop check.


After reviewing the hand a bit, I do agree with Java that folding to the 3bet ott seems the better option. We need like 7 clean outs, and on average we might have less than that.


Results:
I call the 170, river is the 3 putting a oneliner on the board, SB jams for 180, CO snap calls, I have an easy fold.
Spoiler:
SB turns over 8s6s, CO shows Ah2h for a rivered wheel and sigh mucks.
2/4 TP+FD faces double x/raise on the turn Quote
07-23-2019 , 03:46 PM
But you bet the flop because CO raised pre and could call with a ton of hands, most of which you should be ahead of after he checks. Plus, who cares if they fold -- you win a $44 pot, which is a good thing.

Why are you worried about showdown value on the flop? So many cards can ruin that for you on the turn.
2/4 TP+FD faces double x/raise on the turn Quote
07-23-2019 , 07:54 PM
flop check is fine. we have both players' ranges pretty crushed here and people don't expect you to check here with QThh. if here weren't tilted (CO) I'd 3b pre but I don't expect much FE now, so call pre is fine

turn call is dicey though, a lot of your outs are not clean since one person will have a boat here a lot and you have RIO, unless you think you can have the self-control to fold a flush on board pairing rivers. i just meh fold turn.
2/4 TP+FD faces double x/raise on the turn Quote

      
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