I would fold turn. Most players who aren't terrible at poker have a pure value range when they call flop then raise turn (it's just their genius idea of slowplaying one street then fastplaying the next with their value hand), and since there isn't a worse hand then QQ that he's value raising I expect him to have trips or a boat very frequently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keybattle
when my range is too wide on the turn, would V really raise with 88 and TT?
When my range is too wide on the turn, would V be more likely to bluff with some combo draws hands on the turn where he has great FE?
I don't think an older player live would know better that him calling turn with those hands is much more profitable. It's just a common response by non-professionals to raise there. I also don't think they would risk that much on a pure bluff since a reg looking live player is mostly tight in those situations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keybattle
I don't like c-betting flop and giving up on turn unless a very bad turn cards come. That is burning money.
a. I triple barrel overpair on this type run outs a lot live to balance my bluff. V just saw I dumped 350 into 300 river bluff 30 mins ago. Checking turn is losing value for me with my image.
b. I agree he would raise turn some times with 45s, or A4s. I'm saying that he is not raising boat as he knows that I'm capable of tripple barreling thin value and bluff
c. I fire many hands that I pick up some backdoor equity. 77 no, Ax with two overs maybe. Ax with frontdoor flush draw or backdoor flush draw, yes. Some hands that pick up backdoor straight equity I would barrel as well. However, I believe my perceived tripple barrel range is even wider in V's eyes
d. Given my image, I would get paid tripple barrel sometimes. I'm aggressive in V's eyes as well
e. Yes. True. Given his preflop play, he can only have very few suited 4s. Maybe 34s, 45s, A4s. Those are 6 combos. He can have combos that pick up backdoor flush or backdoor straight equity, or pair and backdoor flush draw which are a lot.
f. I'm not actually that afraid of committing my stacks here. I would more afraid of checking then losing values or giving him free cards
g. who know what is his bluff frequency? But given my image, I think his bluff frequency is higher than usual in this spot
a) you're right. It's a clear cbet. I would cbet, bet dry turns but c/c wet ones and c/f river, and on dry turns I would bet turn and against players who aren't stations then c/decide river based on reads and his bet sizing. Betting small for value on the river could be effective too if it runs out dry.
b) I do think he would sometimes raise boats on the turn simply because he doesn't really know better.
c) good about barreling equity and not betting 77 type hands. I do think, though, that barreling two overs is not very profitable because our outs aren't as clean as flush draws or straight draws.
d) I think a more wet turn would be a better c/c on the turn. On this board I think most Tx. 8x, and other pairs, definitely JJ, would call turn/fold river and we want to bet against them for value on the turn.
e) I think a live reg player would just have a value range if he raises turn here, so even though it's not a ton of combos of 4x or boats, it's just more likely he has those if he takes this line.
f) yep, you miss too much value from Tx, 8x, JJ, 99 type hands to check turn. Your hand is good enough to get two streets of value, and you want to get that value on flop and turn.
g) yeah, given your image he might be bluffing turn more often, it's just generally uncommon for people to bluff raise turn here, so it'd have to be a very high bluff frequency for you to call a turn raise. I think if you call a turn raise you will see a river bet very often also, and it's not best to call a turn raise then fold river because of the frequency in which there is a river bet, and I think a river bet will happen very often, which makes a calling a turn raise ineffective if you would check/fold river.