Hand #1: Vacuum Scenario - Bold bluff?

Hero has just sat down on the table with $400 (100-400 buy in). Villain in this hand won the hand before with KK vs 88 on 9d6h5h 4d 2d after thinking for 10 seconds then calling just under 1/2 PSB shove on the turn and saying "that's a terrible turn card". He seems to be a bit on the conservative side of things post-flop from what we can tell. His stack size is now $550.

Hand:

Blinds post
Hero is dealt A9 in MP and decides to post $4
UTG limps $4
UTG+1 folds
Hero checks option
UTG+3 folds
V in HJ raises to $20
CO and BTN Folds
SB folds
BB calls $20
UTG calls $20
Hero calls extra $16.

Flop ($82): K 8 3

All check to V who c-bets $40
BB and UTG folds
Hero contemplates check-raising and decides to call $40

Turn ($162) : 2

Hero?


Hand #2: Showdown hand in a tough spot OTR

Hand is involved with the same villain from hand 1 at the end. We also now know he has a selective hand selection preflop as well as a sort of fit or fold mentality post-flop. V2 is the original raiser in this hand who is playing tight (he checked back a flop HU with QQ against the fish on the table on a J63 flop then tank called 2 barrels on a 9 8 river).

Hero ($1k) is UTG with 77 and limps
V2 is UTG+1 ($850) and raises to $20
V1 ($700) calls $20
All fold including blinds
Hero calls $16

Q - is calling here OOP to these two players with these two stacks with a setmining hand unprofitable in the long run?

Flop: ($66) K 6 9

Hero checks, V1 and V2 check behind.

Turn: ($66) 8

Hero bets $40 with the intention of check/calling bricks on the river and continuing on any 5 and T (do we barrel river on a bink 7??)
V2 folds
V1 thinks for a second then calls

River: ($146) 8

Hero checks
V1 bets $50
Hero??

- Interestingly enough, V1 announced just the hand before that he would've made the nuts with 89 after he folded to a raise preflop, stating "Why did I fold 89 to a raise?" (this is not a spoiler for the hand but I figured it in his range for not betting flop, calling turn and making such a small bet on the river)


Comments on all streets on both hands appreciated thanks.

Hand 1: Check/raise flop is better

Hand 2: Call

On hand 1, your equity is highest on the flop. That's when you should either lead or check raise. On the turn your equity goes down but then you bet. That doesn't make any sense.

Hand 1, check raise flop, gives you initiative and with over are and flush draw you are pretty good odds against most hands

Set mining: with stacks 40x raise, it's fine even oop

River: if you made your mind up on the turn already why are you thinking calling 50 into 196? Call it

Hand 1: If you wanted to get frisky the time to do so was OTF when you had pretty good equity against Villains range, and likely some fold equity as well. When the turn bricks both forms of equity plummet, same with your implied odds. It is hard to imagine Villain folding anything you beat if you lead OTT. At the same time if you c/c, Villain doesn't seem like the type to pay off if you make a flush OTR.

Hand 2: Stacks are deep enough to go set mining profitably. It really depends on the game obviously, but open limping might not be the best way to go about playing this hand. In a limped pot if you flop a set getting in 200+ BB into the center is going to be a challenge. Same is going to be true if you limp/call. You are likely to win a lot more if come in for a raise since stacks are getting deep enough to profitably call a 3b.

As played getting 4-1 OTR I would call hoping to see a busted draw, but expecting to see a bigger PP that got scared of the K high flop.

I appreciate your comments (all), I however disagree with 2 things here. The first is opening UTG with 77, we are indeed involved with the other 2 big stacks on the table who happen to be to my immediate left (no seat change possible either =( ) but we do not know if they are going to enter the pot as often as the other players with 100bb or less. The fishier players we assume are going to enter the pot more and they had around the 100bb mark.

Secondly, I doubt to see a PP from V1 given that he had position on the original raiser and did not bet the flop. Our limp call range doesn't have many (if any) K's either so most of the time we can expect a busted draw with 89 being his only value hand against ours, as we expect to hear from high PP's on the flop from at least a half decent player.

Most are advocating a check/raise but I'm under the impression it looks so weighted to FD's as we would only check/call decent K's? I contemplated this for as little time as I could to give less readings on my range and decided to call flop

Hand 1: As others have stated, you should check-raise the flop. You maximize FE and stand a good chance to win a nice pot now. You have plenty of outs if called. Any club may cool the action and check-raising the flops gets the most money in if your draw hits the turn. It's very strange to check-call then lead when the blankest of blanks hits the turn. Any villain cbeting with anything better than complete air should call because the turn changed nothing. You're lucky the villain made a mistake by cbetting into 3 opponents with air. Again, if you thought villain was weak, check-raise the flop especially after the two other villains folded.

Hand 2: Absolutely call to setmine since villain is plenty deep. You missed on the flop and are done with the hand unless you hit a 7 on the turn. On the turn, you have 4th pair and a crappy straight draw with only 4 clean outs. Why risk getting raised and forced out of the hand? You should check and hope to see the river for free. I'd prepare to call a smallish turn bet, but it depends on the amount and which villain bet. On the river, you already made your decision to check-call a blank and should follow your plan. Another 8 is a blank and you're getting 4-to-1. You have a bluff catcher, so call and try to catch a bluff.

In both hands, I think you try to get too fancy on the turn when playing OOP. You don't have a lot of maneuvering room when you act first. Leading with relatively weak hands is extremely risky. You can get blasted off a hand with a raise and don't know if you're beat or being bluffed.

Like I said before it depends on the game, but in general I don't think limping in with 77 utg is the most profitable way to play the hand. Unless you are at a wild table where the pot will be raised for you or you might be raised off the hand, you are better off sweetening the pot. The 100bb stacks does not change things, and may in fact make raising an even better option.

Mea culpa on the river range. I misread the HH and thought that v1 was the original raiser. Yeah that guy has a ton of missed draws and few value hands in his range, ez call.

I disagree. If we are at a limpy limpy table where players will rarely exploit limps then I think limping is fine. At a table like that players are rarely going to fold to a raise either which means by raising you are bloating a pot out of position with a hand that doesn't play well on the vast majority of boards.

Also, if we open for a raise and are 3-bet when a villain wakes up with a monster we are often priced out of calling. Where-as if we limp we are virtually never going to be priced out of calling a raise. Preflop monsters like AK/QQ+ are the exact hands we should be targeting with our small/medium pocket pairs. If players aren't exploiting limps then a raise over limpers shows great strength.