It's ~3AM. Most of the rec players have retired for the evening. At my table, there's a good mix of decent players and ones that give action. Only one other guy has been playing as long as I have; most of the others came in for some late Sat/early Sun poker. Generally a loose-passive game, as you'll find ~3/4 of the time around this casino.

Hero ($850): Mid 20's. Been playing pretty snug poker as I've been somewhat card dead while trying to get a feel for the new players at the table. Not sure if I have much of an image besides being young, having the most chips at the table, and not playing many hands.

V1 ($200): Hasn't been out of line really. Seems like the loose passive player that calls too much out of the blinds and won't put up much resistance.

V2 ($270): Came from a broken table, has been quite talkative and calls pretty wide. Will look his opponents up with middle pair OTF and let them define their hand. Not someone I would feel comfortable bluffing yet.

Hero (UTG +1) Raises to $15 with KQss, 3 folds, V1 calls from SB, V2 calls from BB.

Flop: ($40) JhTd6h V1 checks, V2 checks, Hero checks.

Turn ($40) 9c V1 leads for $25, V2 folds, Hero raises to $70, V1 quickly calls.

River ($180) 4h V1 checked dark. Hero notices that V1 hasn't looked at the river card yet. I'm 70% sure he hasn't looked at the river. He's staring straight up. A friendly dialogue ensues:

Hero: You haven't looked at the river yet.
V1: I don't want to. I'd rather you bet first.
Hero: I don't have to bet.
V1: (Staring up)

V1 has less than a PSB behind. If I'm going for value I think I'm putting him all in, but the way V played the hand it feels like a flush draw >50% of the time. I'm not that experienced or talented with the live reads, any help with reasoning this through?

Pre- two things here. 1) If you raise to $15 and get two callers in the blind te pot is $45 not $40. 2) I'm ok with the raise but just know that utg+1 it's a lot closer to a fold than most people will tell you. KQ doesn't play all that well OOP to the whole table. Good result though. Flop- I'm betting this. You have real good equity and there's a lot of inferior draws that'll pay. If I'm gonna check I want it to be on the turn.

Turn- bet/fold all the way. And don't engage in conversation. Just bet and let him stare off wherever he wants when trying to angle you.

Standard spot, really, just bet $115. As spikeraw said, bet flop too. With regard to the dialogue: as a rule try and let your villains talk more than you. You want to be mercenary, that is, take more information than you give. Also, make a habit of watching Villains watch the flop, especially when they are supposedly playing "blind".

Spike are you trolling or really just that stupid? KQs doesnt play well in a 1/2 game where people call raises with offsuit gappers and other bull****. Really?

Tough spot on the river but I'm still jamming. Plenty of worse hands in there (qj etc)

I hope you're says b/f the river not the turn.

A few minor points:

1) We were 7 handed at the time. I was second to act, but if we were 9 handed it was effectively early-middle position.

2) Don't stack sizes (especially with V1) dictate a check OTF? If we bet flop and V (or Vs) call, what cards are we betting for value on the turn? A, 9, K. A JT flop hits so many hands that call from the blinds; why are we betting "just because we have some equity?"

3) I rarely ever talk about hands during play, but this was a spot where V was acting strangely, and I wanted to extract some info as the last to act on the river. I'm not that experienced live yet, and would like to be familiar with how certain players physically react in certain situations so I have a memory bank of these spots in the future. I really don't think I'm giving anything up here, but if I am please let me know why.

If villain is loose passive, he isn't going to lead turn with a FD, unless it's exactly AT...Even so, most LP players play their FDs passively...so we can safely assume FD won't make up >50% of his range.

Because hero checked flop, V1 has a ton of value hands he will lead turn with, i.e. KJ, AT, QJ, TJ, 9T, J9, 88, 78..etc

What is throwing you off is the fact that villain checked river dark and hasn't looked at the card. Obv, if he looked at the river and checked, then your play becomes much easier.

Regardless, your play on the river is to bet an amount that can extract value from the 2pairs, 1pair, weaker straights that he has a ton of. The third is a bad card, not because you are beat, but because it makes it harder to extract value from 2pair hands

Shoving isn't going to accomplish this goal. So you have to size it accordingly. I bet 50-55

Agree. If he is loose passive then when he showed aggression it was bc he was good there and not on the draw. You beat everything he could have made on the turn. I tend to think for their whole stack guys tighten up but if you leave them something playable behind they make a crying call. I would go 60-70 but shoving isn't bad. Just depends if he has a fold button or if he is ready to go home for the night.

C-betting this flop, especially in position, is a must.

Making the turn raise bigger makes the river much easier.

Betting flop "just because we have a little bit of equity" is a powerful concept, don't be so quick to dismiss it. If each villain folds only half the time (which seems low), combined they fold around 25%. Our 6 untainted outs will come by the river 24%-ish more, we're winning this pot right around 50% against 2 people.

The other argument against betting is that you don't want to be blown off your draw, I find in the live game this often isn't a concern. You bet 25 in 45 and the most common raise size by far is a minraise to 50. You now have something like 4.8:1 odds to continue.

I'm on board with V's leading range on the turn, but the dark check before the river 1) made no sense and 2) made me think that he wanted me to bet. Which, for it to ACTUALLY make sense to me, means he'll either happily fold or snap call if a heart comes. That was my thought process at the time, and that's why I felt I had to reevaluate.

If villain wanted you to be the wouldn't check dark..he would check after seeing the river card

I would have bet flop. I would have raised a little more on the turn, but not enough to make a difference. As played, definitely betting river -- put him all in.

i am ok with this hand if you shoved the river

i prob raise turn to 90

you are going to get looked up light here

Is this a full 10 handed table? [ETA: ah, I see it is 6 handed]

I'll probably get flack for this, but unless most stacks are short, I'd be more for open limping suited broadway it EP. At loose tables, we often just build a huge bloated pot OOP and can get into some very difficult situations with just TP; or we can end up OOP to decent bigstack players which ain't much fun either. I'm cool with just hoping to get into a multiway limped pot with a nice multiway hand for cheap and see what happens. But as played, we got this 3way in position against both opponents with initiative, so good result (but is this a typical expected result?). [ETA: Oh, 6 handed? Ok, I'm fine with the raise at a shorter table.]

I'd bet the flop, just a 1/2 PSB. It might take it down. Otherwise, we've got decent equity in the pot with overs + nut OESD draw, and we might be able to buy a free card in position.

I also raise the turn. Basically, we want to raise an amount where playing for stacks is easy by the river. I'm cool with $70 although I probably would have raised a bit more. Actually, I just noticed there is a heart draw (lots of action killers on the river), so I probably raise a lot more (closer to $100).

Villain has $115 left in a $180 pot. We're ahead of all worse straights, sets and two pairs, all of which are going to have a hard time folding given this price. Super easy shove for value, imo. And I don't read anything at all into the table talk (and wouldn't encourage it during the hand).

GcluelessNLnoobG