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2/3 AA on double-paired board 2/3 AA on double-paired board

08-04-2010 , 10:59 AM
Last night I raised to $16 with aces in EP. Everyone folds to the BB who calls. I'd never played with this guy before but was getting competent+ vibes. He has $190ish, I have him covered.

Flop: 256r. He bets $20, I call (bad decision).
Turn: 6. He bets $40. I call.
River: 5. He bets $100, leaving $15 or so behind. Now what?
2/3 AA on double-paired board Quote
08-04-2010 , 11:24 AM
I'm assuming you called the turn figuring he'd give up a large percentage of the time on the river. Well, he didn't, so it's time to fold. If he windmill slams 78 face-up, then give him a little golf clap and sleep with his wife in revenge.
2/3 AA on double-paired board Quote
08-04-2010 , 11:27 AM
I'm a fish so I probably just pay him off but this is a tough spot. You're right in that you should have raised the flop. On the flop/turn I would tend to put him on a hand like 8s or 9s but it is tough to imagine a competent player betting that hand on the river when he should just be check/calling. Keep in mind he did call an EP raise from the BB when no one else was in the pot so it's hard to but him on a 6 rag or 5 rag hand. Since you just called the flop he could have a middle pair that he thinks he's value betting. I vomit-call this. Never fold aces, lol
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08-04-2010 , 11:33 AM
Not a lot of info here...

how early/late into the session?; how many players at the table?; what is your image?; have you shown down AA or similar before?

That said, you let him make two blocking bets out of flow... and you let him get away with it. I'm raising the flop and the turn here - which gets all the money in before the river and before we have a tough decision to make. As it stands, his flop bet was slightly more than 1/2 the pot and his turn bet was also slightly more than 1/2 the pot. With the pot at $152 going into the river - his $100 bet is 2/3 pot. It's now $100 to you to win $252... with a potential $15 bonus if you just put him all in.

I'd probably just put $115 in there and wait for him to show 8/8. If he does have the 6 or the 5, well, you let him get there...
2/3 AA on double-paired board Quote
08-04-2010 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grungedave
It's now $100 to you to win $252... with a potential $15 bonus if you just put him all in.
THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE ANY SENSE

Although I didn't notice that hero made it $16 from EP, which definitely makes it way harder for villain to have 64 or 63 type hands. Also 44 or 33 turned into a river bluff are a possibility I guess. I'd still probably fold though, typically in these situations against unknowns unless villain's line makes very little sense I'll probably just let him have it and snap him off later.
2/3 AA on double-paired board Quote
08-04-2010 , 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grungedave
Not a lot of info here...

how early/late into the session?; how many players at the table?; what is your image?; have you shown down AA or similar before?
Full game, 10 players. My image was TAG, I'd quadrupled up in > 2 hrs, had shown & won w/aces twice.
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08-04-2010 , 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solfege
THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE ANY SENSE
Ummmm, how does that not make sense? The $100 river bet by the villain makes the pot $252. You have to call $100 to potentially win this money. Villain still has $15 behind him and this can be a "bonus" to the pot if you just put the rest of his stack in. Or was I being too vague?
2/3 AA on double-paired board Quote
08-04-2010 , 11:56 AM
So you're saying that if you shove, he calls, and you lose, you're going to grab the leftover $15 from his stack and pocket it while whistling nonchalantly?
2/3 AA on double-paired board Quote
08-04-2010 , 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grungedave
... with a potential $15 bonus if you just put him all in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grungedave
Villain still has $15 behind him and this can be a "bonus" to the pot if you just put the rest of his stack in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solfege
So you're saying that if you shove, he calls, and you lose, you're going to grab the leftover $15 from his stack and pocket it while whistling nonchalantly?
... but I always whistle nonchalantly
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08-04-2010 , 12:44 PM
I think both calling and folding are both justifable plays. Even flat calling 3 streets here is justifiable.

I would probably make my decision based on my plan for the session, my read on the player and how I want the table to react to me.

Meh, I probably lean towards calling (particularly if I'll be opening light and don't want to bluffed in future hands)
2/3 AA on double-paired board Quote
08-04-2010 , 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by showandtell
Last night I raised to $16 with aces in EP. Everyone folds to the BB who calls. I'd never played with this guy before but was getting competent+ vibes. He has $190ish, I have him covered.

Flop: 256r. He bets $20, I call (bad decision).
Turn: 6. He bets $40. I call.
River: 5. He bets $100, leaving $15 or so behind. Now what?
Let's go back to the flop. Why did you call? What range were you putting him on pre- that made calling here the right play? What is your plan?
Answer that, and we can go from there.
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08-04-2010 , 01:57 PM
Calling on the flop is fine, lets 77+ valuetown themselves, board is dry. Obv is range is sets, overpairs, connecters for the occasional 2 pair and pair + GS and air.

Against this range against a decent opponent flatting >> raising.
Granted if you think he's a spazzy guy who'll go crazy with pair + GS and shove over your raise, then raise is best, and if he's loose passive and will call your raise and subsequent raises, then a raise is best, but against a competent players flatting is best.

As played, the river is an easier call than the turn. Turn is close.
2/3 AA on double-paired board Quote
08-04-2010 , 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSkip
Let's go back to the flop. Why did you call? What range were you putting him on pre- that made calling here the right play? What is your plan?
Answer that, and we can go from there.
Medium pair or small pair w/ straight draw. I planned to raise or if checked to, bet 2/3s pot on turn.

edit: I had had monster after monster that day and wanted to put some doubt in his head.

Last edited by showandtell; 08-04-2010 at 03:07 PM.
2/3 AA on double-paired board Quote
08-04-2010 , 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suitedbut
Calling on the flop is fine, lets 77+ valuetown themselves
Right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suitedbut
As played, the river is an easier call than the turn.
Why?
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08-04-2010 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by showandtell
Medium pair or small pair w/ straight draw. I planned to raise or if checked to, bet 2/3s pot on turn.

edit: I had had monster after monster that day and wanted to put some doubt in his head.
Perfectly reasonable.

Then stick with the plan. I would raise that turn. If he got lucky with a 6 in his hand or a set, then he'll let you know. The medium pairs will have a hard time folding as the 6 could not have helped you.
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08-04-2010 , 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by showandtell
Right.



Why?
Because once you've called on the turn, what do you think the river changes?
The only difference is the 5 paired, meaning unless he is donk leading 5x on the flop and turn (turning his hand into a bluff pretty on the turn/going for really, really thin value, which is not something most 1/2 players will do)

More importantly, it takes a bunch of 55's from his range, as well as lessens the chance of 56. By card removal effect, this is a v good card for your hand against his range. It means he's bluffing/value betting worse, which is why, if you've called the turn, you should not now fold the river.

If it's one of the few times the 5 improved his range, unlucky, but it's more likely it'll make him think his good ole 77 is good against your AK!!!

(nh if you called the river and unlucky about the cooler)
2/3 AA on double-paired board Quote
08-04-2010 , 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by solfege
THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE ANY SENSE
Yes it does. Its a "bonus" if you shove and win, but its a "rebate" if you flat and lose... DUCY
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08-04-2010 , 10:19 PM
raise flop/get it in.

as you played it on the flop, i would have shoved turn, he can have 77+ and the lone 6 is kinda unlikely.

as played, id prob make the call, this is a tough fold. i guess he sucked out, who knows... i would have rather played for stacks on the flop and gotten it in, i would have been reallly happy getting it in on that flop.
2/3 AA on double-paired board Quote
08-06-2010 , 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suitedbut
Because once you've called on the turn, what do you think the river changes?
The only difference is the 5 paired, meaning unless he is donk leading 5x on the flop and turn (turning his hand into a bluff pretty on the turn/going for really, really thin value, which is not something most 1/2 players will do)

More importantly, it takes a bunch of 55's from his range, as well as lessens the chance of 56. By card removal effect, this is a v good card for your hand against his range. It means he's bluffing/value betting worse, which is why, if you've called the turn, you should not now fold the river.

If it's one of the few times the 5 improved his range, unlucky, but it's more likely it'll make him think his good ole 77 is good against your AK!!!

(nh if you called the river and unlucky about the cooler)
Thanks Suited, I appreciate the input very much. I'm not sure what you mean by "bunch of 55's" though?
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