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2/3/5: Flopped Nuts vs Preflop Raiser 2/3/5: Flopped Nuts vs Preflop Raiser

05-02-2018 , 12:57 AM
Villain: Mid 30's white lady with hoodie, shades and headphones. Played with her for about an hour, no real tells yet, seems to be playing pretty tight. Her stack is about ~800 and she is in SB.

I am in BB with KQo, stack is ~700. Goes around, have 3 limpers. V raises to 25. I call, 2 others call.

Flop ($100): 10 9 J rainbow.

Villain bets 50. I call. Others fold.

Turn ($200): 3x

Villain checks. I check thinking that theres not that many cards that could hurt me on the river.

River: Qx

Spoiler:
Villain checks. I bet 100. V re-raises to 200. I call. Villain shows AK.

Looking back, I don't know if I SHOULD have played it any different, I'm thinking I can bet the turn to get value (and protect my hand?) but my hope was to let V improve so I can get more out of them.


Any thoughts on how I played it and what I should have done?

Last edited by jshah; 05-02-2018 at 01:14 AM.
2/3/5: Flopped Nuts vs Preflop Raiser Quote
05-02-2018 , 01:02 AM
Fold pre without better reads.

I probably raise flop & definitely bet turn -- both for obvious value.

AP, river is fine, but your overall line was not.

Also, don't post results w/o a spoiler function.
2/3/5: Flopped Nuts vs Preflop Raiser Quote
05-02-2018 , 01:14 AM
Thanks for the feedback, added the spoiler function.
2/3/5: Flopped Nuts vs Preflop Raiser Quote
05-02-2018 , 01:15 AM
You should bet the turn.
2/3/5: Flopped Nuts vs Preflop Raiser Quote
05-02-2018 , 03:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Me Up
Fold pre without better reads.

I probably raise flop & definitely bet turn -- both for obvious value.

AP, river is fine, but your overall line was not.

Also, don't post results w/o a spoiler function.
Why in the hell are you folding KQ to a sb squeeze after 3 limpers? I am 3b this for value all day, especially against her description. A 4bet would suck, but we just fold and get away from a dominated hand (likely AK, KK, AA, AQ)

AP - bet the turn for value and build a pot. You are missing out on a TON of value by checking and hoping for a bluff on the river. Board is really connected and you can get called by hands drawing dead, so you can bet pretty big here (2/3 or pot)
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05-02-2018 , 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomelessPizza
Why in the hell are you folding KQ to a sb squeeze after 3 limpers? I am 3b this for value all day, especially against her description. A 4bet would suck, but we just fold and get away from a dominated hand (likely AK, KK, AA, AQ)
OP said shes been playing tight & they have one hour of history together -- that's the "read". Also, generally speaking, people's range from the SB for this sizing (8x if this is a $3 limped pot) is narrow/strong.

You want to 3b w/ a dominated hand because we have blockers & she's wearing a hoody/shades? Good luck with that.
2/3/5: Flopped Nuts vs Preflop Raiser Quote
05-02-2018 , 03:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Me Up
OP said shes been playing tight & they have one hour of history together -- that's the "read". Also, generally speaking, people's range from the SB for this sizing is narrow/strong.

You want to 3b because we have blockers & she's wearing a hoody/shades? Good luck with that.
I want to 3b because 1 hr of history together is not enough for me to deviate from sound strategy. KQ is a snap 3b from a sb squeeze. We likely take it down right then and there. If she calls, we are HU, in position, in a bloated pot with pretty deep stacks. JACKPOT
2/3/5: Flopped Nuts vs Preflop Raiser Quote
05-02-2018 , 03:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomelessPizza
I want to 3b because 1 hr of history together is not enough for me to deviate from sound strategy. KQ is a snap 3b from a sb squeeze. We likely take it down right then and there. If she calls, we are HU, in position, in a bloated pot with pretty deep stacks. JACKPOT
2/3/5: Flopped Nuts vs Preflop Raiser Quote
05-02-2018 , 09:44 AM
I prefer a flop call to keep our range wide. We want to be able to call a lot of hands here and keep in hands like QT, Q9 from the limpers who are drawing to the chop. Raising flop would get V to make correct folds against our hand pretty often as well.

AP turn you have to bet.
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05-02-2018 , 10:03 AM
Pre, flop, and turn are extremely bad. Extremely.

And lol @ 3betting pre. Come on man.
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05-02-2018 , 10:31 AM
Interesting posts here so far ...
1) You typically don't 3B a 'tight' player w a hand like KQ that is likely behind and probably crushed if the Opponent stays in the hand. Are you getting a 66% (or whatever you need) fold rate from them? Unlikely
2) I don't mind flatting IP here 'sometimes', but I'm ready to punt KQ pretty quickly here. My fingers are crossed that 1-2 limpers stick around or this could be a long term loser against tighter players. I would prefer a holding where I don't share cards with the Raiser.

3) HU I raise Flop more often, but I will mix in both flats and raises depending on who the limpers are and how deep everyone's stacks are.
4) Definitely betting Turn. You hit gin, lost your limper value and a tight player will just c/f the River if they don't improve. No free cards here IP since if the PFR thinks you are FOS then you will get bet into on the River and you may get shoved on if they have AA/KK/set here. (Yes, there are many 'tight' players that will slow play sets on this Board.)

5) River spoiler is 'that's poker' but you 'have' to bet here and 'should' call it off. Although there are some players who I have extensive history with that would only raise the nuts here, no AA or sets, and I may fold ... but unlikely the way the hand was played this time. GL
2/3/5: Flopped Nuts vs Preflop Raiser Quote
05-02-2018 , 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomelessPizza
I want to 3b because 1 hr of history together is not enough for me to deviate from sound strategy. KQ is a snap 3b from a sb squeeze. We likely take it down right then and there. If she calls, we are HU, in position, in a bloated pot with pretty deep stacks. JACKPOT
1) Not enough history? OK, I'll buy that ...
2) Snap 3B? This is not an ABC poker idea w KQ. You've just said that you have no history/read on SB and now you are calling an SB opening bet a 'squeeze'. You can't have it both ways.

3) There are times we take it down, but you lose any value from the limpers when they now fold as well.
4) Now you get a call, Oops it wasn't a squeeze, and although we do have position our holding is flipping or crushed in a bloated pot. This is not good for our long term poker goals.

How do you feel about a Q74r Flop and get Donked into or c/r? GL
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05-02-2018 , 10:47 AM
Not betting the turn is bad. Even if we don't think there are many bad turn cards, we want value. He called flop, not much changed on the turn, and we obviously want more money in the pot.
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05-02-2018 , 12:16 PM
Bet the turn!
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05-05-2018 , 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
1) Not enough history? OK, I'll buy that ...
2) Snap 3B? This is not an ABC poker idea w KQ. You've just said that you have no history/read on SB and now you are calling an SB opening bet a 'squeeze'. You can't have it both ways.

3) There are times we take it down, but you lose any value from the limpers when they now fold as well.
4) Now you get a call, Oops it wasn't a squeeze, and although we do have position our holding is flipping or crushed in a bloated pot. This is not good for our long term poker goals.

How do you feel about a Q74r Flop and get Donked into or c/r? GL

2) I get that this is just 2/3/5 and maybe getting too tricky with this line, but I am much more likely to 3b potentially dominated hands like offsuit broadways and then ditch it to a 4bet.

3) losing value from limpers? that is a terrible logic to have, especially multiway and OOP. The only value we get from limpers is isolating them, or raising them for folds and capitalizing on dead money.

4) We get a call? That's fine. You mention 1 flop and fail to mention the most likely scenario where she whiffs the flop and we get better hands to fold. We are printing money in the long run when she calls a 3b OOP. In any case, we do not have to marry ourselves to our hand just because we 3bet. If I get xr on a Q74r board, I make an exploitative fold.
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05-06-2018 , 07:07 AM
3b pre is bad. What do you think a generic tight lady's 5x isoing range is in the SB? This player type ain't popping it with 86s, A4s, or KTos.

You say you will win by bluff cbetting. If she raise/calls pre, she will have AJ+, 88+, and a few suited broadway combos. The idea that your cbet will just take it down a large percentage of the time is a fantasy.
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