Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop 2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop

05-18-2024 , 10:18 AM
Hero is seen as raise or fold type player. Tight Agrressive. Not showing down junk hands. Somewhat card dead so I wasn't playing too many hands.

Hero is in HJ with:
KQ

One Limper, all others fold to Hero

Hero (HJ 1k effective) Raises to:
$15

CO has seen to raise and limp mix strategy. He has 3bet another player before.
He 3bet Hero last orbit and won the pot OTF. He 3b to 40 from a $15 raise.
CO also limped utg w/AQ and folded to ep raise $18 and BB 3bettor of $75.

CO 3B hero to $45

Folds to hero, hero calls

POT: $98 (before rake) 1k stacks effective

FLOP:
QJ7

Hero check/calls $50 bet

Turn
8
POT: $198 (before rake)
QJ7:diamond8:club

Hero check/calls $100

River
A
POT: $398 (before rake)

QJ7:diamond8:clubA

Hero check/Folds to $150 bet

Hero and villain are 300+ BB deep.
I figured he's 3bet before and being this deep I have good pot odds and implied odds to call.
Tough to say for me but I think I can call down if the run out were a blank.
CO has shown Agrressive tendencies enough for me to make the calls otf and turn.
River seems like a fold without a :diamond or at least 2p+?
Not sure about this one. Thank you
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-18-2024 , 11:05 AM
BOARD QJ78A

Not sure how to edit my original post
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-18-2024 , 11:44 AM
Is this 1/2 or 2/5? If if it 1/2, your raise is too big.

Any player that is limping AQ probably doesn't have a wide 3bet range. OOP, I'd just let this go when 3bet. If I'm playing it, I'm looking to hit this flop hard, which you didn't do. I might call the flop if I got that far, but would fold the turn.
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-18-2024 , 12:17 PM
2/3 vs 1 limper. Standard open size has been $10-15 w/out limpers
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-18-2024 , 12:42 PM
Fold pre
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-18-2024 , 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matzah_ball
Fold pre
What are we calling here?

Any 4bet bluffs?
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-18-2024 , 09:14 PM
You don't need 4-bet bluffs vs people that limp and call is bad

I'd imagine flop is somewhat close vs the average low stakes 3-bettor but call is definitely standard. I'm not too convinced they actually 3-bet light just from them doing it a couple times before

Definitely folding turn to exploit people who don't find enough double barrel bluffs (that don't have good equity)

Would fold any rivers because the flop is monotone
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-18-2024 , 09:30 PM
Would seem to be a fold preflop to the 3bet if you didn't have good reason to 4bet bluff.

If a player is limp/folding AQ to a single raise, then 4bet bluffing is not a good idea, since it's likely they're only 3betting value (with a value range that is very narrow, i.e. QQ+, and dominates KQo).

Also not sure why you're saying Villain has shown "aggressive tendencies". I mean, limp/folding AQ is passive. Maybe you haven't described villain accurately?
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-18-2024 , 09:59 PM
Yeah I think I'm over thinking it. Just seen him raise often enough to think maybe he thought he was limp trapping his AQ. It was the 2nd time he 3b me in the same positions so also tilted.

What hands can we call here?

99+, AK?

Last edited by InfinitRix; 05-18-2024 at 10:08 PM. Reason: Incorrect spelling
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-18-2024 , 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTJO
Also not sure why you're saying Villain has shown "aggressive tendencies". I mean, limp/folding AQ is passive. Maybe you haven't described villain accurately?

He limp fold vs a raise and a 3bet
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-18-2024 , 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matzah_ball
Fold pre
This may be way too aggressive, but I prefer a 4b vs a call OOP vs V as described (3b at least 1x an orbit). Yes, we're bluffing vs a typical 3b range.

Fold is probably better though. Esp vs most Vs who aren't 3b this frequently.

Ap, far prefer c-raise/fold on flop vs calling down. Calling the 3b PF, you can have a lot of suited diamonds that do not want a 4th diamond.

If called, I'm done with the hand.
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-18-2024 , 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitRix
Yeah I think I'm over thinking it. Just seen him raise often enough to think maybe he thought he was limp trapping his AQ. It was the 2nd time he 3b me in the same positions so also tilted.

What hands can we call here?

99+, AK?
Why are we wanting to call OOP? I'd thought we hate doing that? Therefore, we raise or fold, if we're not MW.

PPs are an exception, as deep as we are.
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-18-2024 , 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitRix
He limp fold vs a raise and a 3bet
Yes, my mistake. That's a standard fold vs a raise then a 3bet, so doesn't make V passive (although he did limp the AQ). If he 3bet you twice in short succession, then maybe consider KQ as a 4bet bluff, as it is a decent hand as a bluff. Keep in mind that you're being speculative, given the tiny sample, so you'd need other info to be more sure. The fact you are deep means you can easily 4bet/fold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitRix
Yeah I think I'm over thinking it. Just seen him raise often enough to think maybe he thought he was limp trapping his AQ. It was the 2nd time he 3b me in the same positions so also tilted.

What hands can we call here?

99+, AK?
You are 300+ BB deep. So you can call with a bunch: suited connectors, all your pairs, all suited broadways, suited As. Hands like KJ-KQo and AJo are folds. I'd rather call with JTo than KQo for instance.
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-19-2024 , 03:05 PM
Very easy fold pre.
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-20-2024 , 05:44 PM
I've come to view KQ as a trouble hand. We can open with KQo, and 3B with KQs when we're IP. Post-flop, if we don't smash the board, I'm usually done with it.

Here, I think I'd be done with it when V 3B's us pre.

If he's been relentlessly 3B'ing all our opens, and otherwise just raising us off all our equity post-flop, I might put in a f**k you 4B to $200, but then I am absolutely positively done with it if he 5B's, or if he calls, and we don't obliterate the flop.

If you feel like he's picking on you specifically, change seats, or better yet, change tables, especially if you think he's got a skill advantage on you. No shame in not wanting a crusher sitting to your direct left.

If you think he's full of $hlt, and you think you have a skill advantage on him, then play back at him, but choose your spots carefully.

If you were to 4B him here, and he folds, I'd show him the KQo, to put him on tilt. But then I'd really tighten up my open range, and work in some limp-3B's. I'd start check-raising him mercilessly post-flop, until he got the message I wasn't at the table to donate.

All the suggested shenanigans aside, KQo is a trash hand facing a 3B. Maybe the guy is just picking up a lot of good starting hands. I'd switch seats, at a minimum, to get away from him. If you can't switch seats or tables, then just tighten up and wait for a good opportunity to cooler him and double up. Nothing humbles the table bully like getting felted by the opponent he's been beating up on all night.
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-20-2024 , 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by docvail
I've come to view KQ as a trouble hand. We can open with KQo, and 3B with KQs when we're IP. Post-flop, if we don't smash the board, I'm usually done with it.
The value of KQo does also depend on how regularly players in your pool 3bet AK and AQ. I find that in lower stake games AQ-AK are not 3bet as much as you might expect, which means Kxx/Qxx flops can be trickier to navigate/value bet, even HU or 3way. Watch out for those OMCs who call you on those Kxx flops and then shake their heads and call again on the turn. Be ready to turn your hand into a bluff/give up on the river!
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-21-2024 , 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTJO
The value of KQo does also depend on how regularly players in your pool 3bet AK and AQ. I find that in lower stake games AQ-AK are not 3bet as much as you might expect, which means Kxx/Qxx flops can be trickier to navigate/value bet, even HU or 3way. Watch out for those OMCs who call you on those Kxx flops and then shake their heads and call again on the turn. Be ready to turn your hand into a bluff/give up on the river!
Exactly. We'll often have a dominated top pair.
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-21-2024 , 01:12 PM
At higher stakes, it could be a call or 4-bet. At 2/3, without reads, you need to assume 3-bets are very strong hands, so easy fold with KQo.
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-21-2024 , 03:35 PM
When the 3-bettor likely has a tight range at low stakes, you can call with a pp or good suited cards with pot odds. Then you have a chance to make a set, straight, or flush to beat one good pair, and if not you may be about to figure if your opponent missed with AK/AQ/JJ or a bluff and your pair is good. KQ can make straights, but the high cards are too often dominated when you make a pair.
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote
05-21-2024 , 03:44 PM
dont understand. none of the history hands are any reason to call this pre lol. you would need to see him 3betting way too wide - stuff like qto, k7ss type hands for me to think calling pre is going to be a good idea. as u get this deep u prob best off never 4betting offsuit stuff oop beyond maybe ak. you aren't trying to make his bluffs never win the hand preflop, you're just trying to make them indifferent. also you're opening from the hj over a limper 9 handed, theres no way he can run you over here, your range is too strong
2/3 1k starting stack vs 3 bettor oop Quote

      
m