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10/25 nl hu 10/25 nl hu

12-16-2014 , 07:17 AM
Never played with vill before. We are about an hour into match. Vill is fairly standard aggro has raised 100% of buttons and has folded most of bu. I've 3 bet him less then 10 times and he's probably 2x me. I've 4 bet once and he hasn't yet.

Pre - vill raises bu to standard 75, I 3 bet 275 with qq and vill raises to 675 I call.

Flop (1350) 863 2 clubs. I check vill bets 875 I?

What's my plan for the rest of the hand? On the flop I'm 5 or 5.5k eff.
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12-16-2014 , 09:47 AM
You've 3-bet ten times in an hour?

If he's capable of 3-betting flop without a pair I'd probably just x/r and get it in. I think call and don't fold later is fine too.
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12-16-2014 , 11:39 AM
Call/see you at showdown.
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12-16-2014 , 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
You've 3-bet ten times in an hour?

If he's capable of 3-betting flop without a pair I'd probably just x/r and get it in. I think call and don't fold later is fine too.
I probably haven't 3/4 bet pre as much as I should and he has pretty much had it in bigger pots. Based off my limited play I'd seen he will only 2 barrell board. That being said there are a ton of bad runouts for me and I'd really hate to cc flop and turn and be faced with river bet or just see him 2 barrell and give up river with a hand that has tons of equity on me. Does anyone like c/stuff flop or turn better? Are there any turns I give up on?
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12-16-2014 , 06:31 PM
I call down on most runouts. Jamming the turn is a possibility depending on the card/his sizing but I think raising the flop is bad for a number of reasons.
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12-16-2014 , 09:56 PM
Guys, we've 3-bet 10 times in an hour. We look like a monkey. The flop is 862 with a fd.

I'm not saying calling is bad, I'm saying we should have a pretty good idea whether we're getting folds from A high or not when we x/r, and if we're not, calling is a disaster.
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12-16-2014 , 11:33 PM
I don't think c/r flop is bad, but hoping for A high calls seems pretty damn optimistic to me. He just gonna call off with A high on brick turns?
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12-17-2014 , 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Muffin Man
I don't think c/r flop is bad, but hoping for A high calls seems pretty damn optimistic to me. He just gonna call off with A high on brick turns?
You think he's just gonna fold AsK or AsQ or As4?

I'm not expecting him to call I'm expecting him to GII
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12-19-2014 , 10:18 AM
The dude bet 20% of his stack, how about we take yes for an answer?

I'd probably raise with no club and call with club if I'm trying to build sophisticated ranges. Also I'd 5-bet pre pretty frequently, of course.
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12-19-2014 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555
The dude bet 20% of his stack, how about we take yes for an answer?

I'd probably raise with no club and call with club if I'm trying to build sophisticated ranges. Also I'd 5-bet pre pretty frequently, of course.
This was his first 4 bet and I did consider 5 betting but I thought seeing a flop was better. Also remember this is hu so I don't think I was 3 betting a lot, he was probably 2x more likely to do so and also raised his button 100% while I had folded mine 5-6 times if anything I was the nit at the table

If I get 6 bet what do I do then?
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12-19-2014 , 11:34 AM
well you're not 5B/folding....how many BBs are you guys?
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12-19-2014 , 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsdeee
well you're not 5B/folding....how many BBs are you guys?
I have between 6-7k to start and vill covers. I think a 6 bet from vill would look super strong but I don't think I would fold qq to this guy in fr so I'm not doing it here. That being said I don't really want to gii here because I don't expect him to show up with 1010/JJ too often and I'd like to keep those hands in his range which will never fold on this flop once I flat the 4 pre (I hope).
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12-19-2014 , 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeBomb
This was his first 4 bet and I did consider 5 betting but I thought seeing a flop was better. Also remember this is hu so I don't think I was 3 betting a lot, he was probably 2x more likely to do so and also raised his button 100% while I had folded mine 5-6 times if anything I was the nit at the table

If I get 6 bet what do I do then?
Wait so he 3-bet 20 times in an hour? I thought you meant he 3-bet twice.

How many hands/hour do you think you get HU? 70? 80? 12.5-14% isn't TOO high but I'd definitely call it high.
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12-19-2014 , 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
Wait so he 3-bet 20 times in an hour? I thought you meant he 3-bet twice.

How many hands/hour do you think you get HU? 70? 80? 12.5-14% isn't TOO high but I'd definitely call it high.
I'd say 15-20 times and we might have seen 100 hands.
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12-19-2014 , 10:55 PM
We're heads up with the 3rd beast hand in poker. We're playing an aggro match vs an aggro opponent who is 3betting even more frequently than we are. We are out of position. Why make things more difficult than they need to be?

I would make it 1500 pre and call a jam. There are too many opportunities to see bad runouts that will put us in **** spots postflop.

5betting pre and and taking the pot down is not the worst option IMO.

Once we see this flop I would c/r gii. What does he expect our 3b/flat range to include? Is he going to fold 99-JJ? He's definitely not folding NFD and combo draws. We have too much equity and no backdoors we can't afford to flat and see bad cards on turn/river and turn a hand with a lot of equity into a check/guess game, IMO.
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12-22-2014 , 08:31 PM
5b/c as played chk/r/call

this isn't a hard one
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12-22-2014 , 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravager 102
5b/c as played chk/r/call

this isn't a hard one
Lol what a miserable post were so deep what you think he's 6b shoving?
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12-23-2014 , 12:25 AM
his entire light 6bet shoving range ofc!

Spoiler:
which consists of AA/KK
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12-23-2014 , 02:49 PM
I would call and call down. QQ hu with an aggressive villain I wouldnt fold, nor raise and overplay it.
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12-24-2014 , 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebet33
Lol what a miserable post were so deep what you think he's 6b shoving?
I am guessing bro. So are you. This is HU poker, where gameflow is the entire game in this type of spot.

I would guess that a guy with a 3b strategy north of 20% playing vs a guy with a 3b stat of ~15% is going to show up with a lot of bluffs here in this spot.

Since this is his first 4b in ~10-15 opportunities you have to guess whether or not in this particular spot he is the player type to bluff enough to make 5b/c more profitable then flatting the 4b.

I am guessing that he is going to 6b/pile enough A2-A5s to make our calls +ev and when he chooses to flat the 5b I think we make more money there as well.

Its basically game theory spot, is our EV (when he flats the 5)(% he flats the 5) + EV (when he 6b piles)(% he piles) + EV (when he folds)(% he folds) > EV (of playing a 4b pot oop).

I can try to design some kind of cardrunnersev decision tree to model this, but because we are essentially just guessing about what sort of ranges he is going to chuck certain hands into its kind of pointless.
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12-24-2014 , 12:35 AM
Also everyone who battles live HU and has this kind of 3b stat is a total monkey in my experience, and will jump at the chance to punt off their stack if you let them (especially pre)

Last edited by ravager 102; 12-24-2014 at 12:43 AM.
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12-24-2014 , 02:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravager 102
Also everyone who battles live HU and has this kind of 3b stat is a total monkey in my experience, and will jump at the chance to punt off their stack if you let them (especially pre)
Normally I would agree with you but he had been a bit cautious post as he had not 3 barreled (maybe once) and he had gotten a bit less value then I had expected especially since I had been calling him down with a and k high and generally not been good. In this particular spot I wasn't sure how strong he was but I felt that if I 5 bet he would either flat or fold most of his non prems. Earlier in the match I had been flatting his 3 bets a bit too much and I felt this would help me in underrepping my hand. While he was 3 betting a lot and not defending much vs my 3 bets I wouldn't classify this guy as a monkey and therefore didn't feel 5 bet gii was my best play pre.
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