Game is 10/25 with optional 50 straddle, 5k min buy. Rake is time based. Game is a private game put on by V1 and V2 of this thread:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...16/?highlight=

Hero has been playing 30 mins to an hour. V1 from previous hand is generally friendly with me, but tells me I need to play more hands or he won't let me play in the game. After that, hero had AA and doubled up and then some in a 4bet pot.

So, I know 100% that my hand is an open fold pre, but playing in games with this pool has been insanely profitable for me, and I constantly am worried about not being allowed to play in the games. So I am trying to give action.

$11k effective, hero is effective stack. Game is 7 handed, hero is UTG after the $50 straddle.

Hero raises Kh9s to $125. V2 then gives me a speech about how I can't raise to $125, no one is going to fold.

Folds to button, rich, relatively unknown, calls (V2, "see?"). Sb, retired rec calls (see?).

BB, V1 rich mega whale (chases backdoor straight draws on paired flops and calls when he hits a low pair, makes insane bluffs frequently, down 10s if not 100s of k this year) raises to $375 (see?).

V2, who is the V2 mega action guy from the linked thread above, cold calls from the $50 straddle. V2 is down an unspecified large amount from playing for several hours already. Presumably at least 10k if not way more. Hero calls, button folds, SB Folds.

Flop ($1,375): AhTd8h checks to hero, hero bets $500 with backdoor nutflush draw, V1 calls, V2 calls.

Turn ($2,875): AhTd8h6d, checks to hero, hero checks through

River ($2,875): AhTd8h6d4h V1 checks, v2 bets $1,500. Hero holds the dry Kh for the nutflush blocker, $10,125 behind. Hero?

Easiest fold pre ever. Just because you have a gun held to your head on VPIPing higher doesn't mean you choose crap hands in terrible positions at the table to play more. Add more 3bets in late position with suited hands. You can call single raises as well with the same types of cards.

A nut flush blocker isn't nearly as relevant in a game where people have giga wide ranges and will not fold any flush. Betting this flop is not a good move. Even thinking about bluffing the river is not a good move. Find spots that make sense to put pressure on people and not just randomly button click on boards that are bad to bluff on vs opponents that are bad to bluff against.

K9o UTG is still a bit too much, I get you have to VPIP, but there are tons of better spots/hands. The flop bet is much more of an issue though, it's a mw 3b pot with sticky whale opponents, you just don't want to run huge bluffs with low equity hands. The reason why you want to get invited is they don't fold, which obviously hurts your hands that get their EV mostly from bluffing on certain runouts. I'd triple barrell bluff close to never in this game, you can do stupid stuff to appeal to the organizer in small pots, but I would avoid spots where you have to bluff a whale for like 6-7k otr or give up without sdv. The way you generally do this is to check flop with the likely 3 barrell hands. You might get a chance to bluff later and you don't make it obvious that you don't bluff big, because you never give up clear bluffing hands otr, you just don't get into those spots, which is much harder to notice.

AP I would just fold with the info you gave. You played a lot with V2, so his sizing might give off a tell, but to me it looks uncapped and fairly strong, so I wouldn't go crazy. The K blocker doesn't seem too relevant because they could easily call you with 2p based on description. And this is pretty similar to what I've described above, you can simply muck and honestly not look like much of a nit, or try to bluff two rich whales for 100bb+, doesn't look like a close decision to me.

I don't play in this rarified atmosphere but my adjustment to this legit threat to my winrate would be to play wider in position including squeezing. I suspect raising unsuited junk from EP when super deep is likely worse than say overcalling 74ss from the BTN.

The raise pre is actually understandable to me. You don’t know whether you’re going to get a better “opening up” spot before you get banned.

But shut down after that. This raise is a small mistake compared to what happens when you compound it.

Will you be asked to leave during the game? Or just not invited back? If it's the latter, I'd just start playing more hands in late position. If the former, this is fine.

Shut down after flop on this hand. As played, don't bluff river.

I think you misinterpreted the warning you got. It isn't just play more hands. It is, "We're gambling and having fun. If you're looking to cash out a lot of money consistently, you're not going to be invited again." The key to stay in this game is going to be to look like you're a gambler and be fun to be around. The AA hand hurt your cause, didn't help it.

Play a lot more hands in late position and play "normal" in the UTG. Call more with your SC. Not that you have to be the life of the party, but you need to be participating in the fun. At least get them started on some 0 EV prop bets.

Double straddling would’ve been better ev honestly than raising K9o utg

As played, please fold at some point in this hand.

Also if widening range EP I'd go for suited random stuff way more than K9o. Like K2s way better, and T7s better as a hand and for range.

Yeah this smells tilty.

Get involved with some suited one gappers, some light 3bets in position (or, as someone said, overcalling with 74s sounds good). The whole hand feels like a mindset issue, you threw good money after bad in a bad spot with little equity and little fold equity and under pressure from yourself didn't allow yourself to let go.

Sounds like you need to lose a few small pots at showdown to keep everyone happy, but you don't want to end up losing massive ones just to play the system.

If Kh was on the board and you held Ah then bluffing might be a better option

Honestly i would just auto straddle up to 200, gives the illusion that im playing more hands/gamble while at the same time playing my usual strategy.

After reading this post I was thinking back on how I have been invited to play in home games by people who knew me from the casino (right when I moved away from the area so never went).

I was certainly a winning player when I was invited. So I think venice's post is right.

I think the key is to not to make losing plays, but to look like you're mixing it up. I once heard two guys talking about me right after I won a big pot, and one was saying what a nit I am and how he thought I was about to hit and run. The other, who had some history with me, said, no, "he always gives you a chance to win your money back."

I think that's the image you have to cultivate to keep getting invited. You can be a winning player, as long as you're giving people a chance to win pots against you. The point is that they don't need to have a GOOD chance--just a chance.

From descriptions it kinda seems like both v1 & v2 would have been likely to bet/raise many of their flush draws on flop or turn, so this could get thru more often than it appears, esp with hero image. It’s hard to give feedback on that specific point though, where OP will ofc have more relevant info/reads than can practically be distilled into villain descriptions; and obv the strong presumption is going to be don’t bluff into 2 whales. From the image pov I do think this is what they are looking for though, to know that you are there to “make moves” and when you pile a bunch of $ in you might not have it. There are other easier things like straddles etc that give the inference of an action player (which are also worth doing) but this is really more to the point. Obv that doesn’t mean you should just torch a stack to prove that, but something to consider in spots where you think jam is breakeven/slightly worse than another option.

If you’re gonna win 200K this year staying in the game maybe just ship the 10K on river. It should work a lot and you get to show it either way. Tilting the whale is fun too.

So I would raise this river given V2 is a maniac based on the info you have on him. He can have a flush but there's other hands he might have (J9,QJ,79.KQs?) and it makes it even better if he views you as more ABC straightforward. If you raise to 4k-4500 I would assume he only calls with flushes and worst case you get caught but the table likes your aggression.

Feels like were dipping into throwing at this point. Ive heard of multiple legends of the game talking about mucking winning hands to keep fish happy or to be able to stay in the game. I'd recommend not necessarily giving away winning hands but 1) increasing our VPIP in intelligent ways, limping or calling along more and being super aggro in LP 2) betting a lot of small amounts post flop gives you the image of the action player where you are not really risking that much with weak hands while also dragging worse players into deeper waters where you can improve on low pair / gutshot type hands or bluff a lot easier assuming your game is full of passive calling types.

cant imagine cbetting flop to not put all of the money in on the river especially if they think you're a nit. its going to be a decently large overbluff but whatever. v2 is uh not a great candidate to do it against but i think even if you get called something like that is gonna be better for ur image than opening k9o ep and cbetting flop if you're trying to show them you've ficing action. pre is whatever but i agree straddling is probably a more efficient way to torch. the issue with private games ime is no matter how friendly or loose you are, if you are there to win you are inevitably gonna get banned unless you give the guy running the game action or bring someone to the game. maybe its different if its all fish and the fish are running the game but like private games exist because of nitty pros and greedy game runners lol

Yep very much this. Or get a round of bomb pots going, anything to look more gambly without actually hurting your win rate.

Results:


I appreciate the suggestions everyone has made for satisfying the game organizers. Will try to do some more gambling things that aren't so clearly torching money, prop bets, etc. Also looking to bring in some players to the game.

Good result and I think showing the bluff is a good idea, it might ruffle some feathers but it certainly makes you look more gambly which is good.

Hopefully the players you bring are actiony. Not going to look good if you show up with a brace of dead-eyed nits.

EDIT

This article has some side action ideas when playing poker: https://www.casinocitytimes.com/aaro...ker-game-60369

Another thing you can do is play some degenerate poker variant for the last hour e.g. 5 card PLO Hi Lo, PL Drawmaha etc.

One more bit of info:



Yeah, I think they like running dry hands also.

I don''t know how people trust home games. I've run into so many people that have been cheated and have seen dealers with some sick cheating skills.

It's not a home game, it's a private game run at a cardhouse. Only the cardhouse gets the time paid, provides dealers, etc. But the organizer gets to pick who sits, rules of table, etc.

Getting and staying invited to the best games involves an actual skill set. The advice you are getting in this thread, and what you are coming up with on your own, is basically the equivalent of telling somebody to cbet 1/3 pot because it looks GTO. You have to understand relationships. You have to understand ecosystems. You have to outright dump sometimes and that isn't the half of it. I mean, do we honestly believe that the guys who don't get asked back are just the poor doofuses who didn't know to straddle, or to make goofy plays for advertising (but be careful not to torch too much ev!), or whatever?

Broken record here, but read limon:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...rchid=65515685

All of it. This is strategy, not tactics, and you're probably going to have some time on your hands when you're looking for another game as the one you're about to get kicked out of. I enjoy your posts, you are clearly very good at poker, but once the guy running the board hits you with this, you're basically trying to fish the turd out of the punch bowl. Open/4betting A5s 100% in that spot from the other thread isn't going to fool anybody into thinking you have a pulse. That's not really supposed to be the goal.

Thanks man, I appreciate your thoughts and feel like you're pretty spot on. Link is broken though?