Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove 10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove

02-14-2012 , 09:49 AM
Four handed at the Wynn.

Cutoff limps. Director raises to $70 in the SB.

I have 44 in the BB, and I call. Cutoff folds.

FLOP ($160, 2 players): AQ4

Director bets $60. I call.

TURN ($280, 2 players): Q

Director checks. I bet $100. Director raises to $400. I call.

RIVER ($1080, 2 players): J

Director quickly shoves. Costs $1200 to call.

Director is sitting really deep. I've probably played about 20 hours with him, total. He's wearing some artsy fartsy french philosophy t-shirt or something, but he always seems silent, calm, serious and alpha. He's old and balding, but still good looking. Sort of like a better looking, clean-shaven version of George Carlin. I think he's intelligent and takes the game seriously, but I doubt he's pro. I imagine him being a movie director or writer or something. He uses highly variable bet sizings, but I don't think he gives away any obvious sizing tells. I've seen him bet small with strong holdings on many occasions. I don't think I've ever seen him bluff. He raises a lot preflop.
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote
02-14-2012 , 10:02 AM
Raise flop.

As played, call river. The instashove makes me call probably. People usually think a little bit if they have AA or AQ here.

What's up with all the underbets here?
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote
02-14-2012 , 11:18 AM
Tough spot I would call river. Turn c/r doesn't make me think boat, and river shove could be ak flush or just him thinking you have a flush and will fold. If he has aq then kinda cooler but the way you played it I don't think you can fold. Just curious, if you raise flop and he 3bet stuffs, do you not fistpumpsnapcallhighfive etc?
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote
02-14-2012 , 11:48 AM
Curious why you are flatting his small flop bet. Lots of value in raising here it seems. Lots of combos of QJ/AQ play this way, but I guess you are under-repped. It's definitely a value shove (imo) but I probably call.
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote
02-14-2012 , 11:50 AM
I kind of feel like he has KsQx. If he is ever value shoving with the Ks, you probably have to call.
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote
02-14-2012 , 12:09 PM
Raise flop for sure, there are a ton of horrible turn cards, that even if they don't improve him, they will kill your action.

As played, river is actually close. I don't see much that you are beating here tbh. K high flush? That's about it. You essentially have a bluff catcher. His line is actually pretty consistent with a monster. Small flop bet with 2pair or a set (to induce a raise), very small turn bet with a boat (to keep all the draws in), and a shove on the river (last chance to get full value).

You said that you never saw him bluff, and an older director isn't the type to be a big bluffer anyway. I fold river.
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote
02-14-2012 , 12:36 PM
as long as your image is aggressive raise the flop - its so connected that he'll have a piece of it and have to continue.....dont really get your turn sizing - its one thing if your looking for him to spazz out but it seems you do this against everyone - id def go larger.....river is gross - Id call.....even if hes incapable of bluffing its 4 handed and he might overplay value hands he shouldnt...dont think calling or folding is going to be much of a difference though.
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote
02-14-2012 , 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatsWhatIDo
Raise flop for sure, there are a ton of horrible turn cards, that even if they don't improve him, they will kill your action.

As played, river is actually close. I don't see much that you are beating here tbh. K high flush? That's about it. You essentially have a bluff catcher. His line is actually pretty consistent with a monster. Small flop bet with 2pair or a set (to induce a raise), very small turn bet with a boat (to keep all the draws in), and a shove on the river (last chance to get full value).

You said that you never saw him bluff, and an older director isn't the type to be a big bluffer anyway. I fold river.
Yeah but villain didn't make a very small turn bet, he c/r'd to $400 after Hero's $100 bet. So I don't think he has a monster in that spot since any huge hands would probably prefer to lead out rather than c/r and scare someone away. I think that at best he has a flush on the turn, or something like KQ with the Ks.

I think, like many other itt, that you should have raised flop, or even 3-bet the turn since you can get called by worse and only AA/AQ beat you (just don't see him c/r with either monster in that spot).

The river makes it interesting since I personally think he could have made it there with QJ. You are still under-repped though, so I would end up calling - otherwise why are we flatting the c/r on the turn?
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote
02-14-2012 , 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cook-
Yeah but villain didn't make a very small turn bet, he c/r'd to $400 after Hero's $100 bet. So I don't think he has a monster in that spot since any huge hands would probably prefer to lead out rather than c/r and scare someone away. I think that at best he has a flush on the turn, or something like KQ with the Ks.

I think, like many other itt, that you should have raised flop, or even 3-bet the turn since you can get called by worse and only AA/AQ beat you (just don't see him c/r with either monster in that spot).

The river makes it interesting since I personally think he could have made it there with QJ. You are still under-repped though, so I would end up calling - otherwise why are we flatting the c/r on the turn?
oh, missed the turn raise, thought villain bet $100 ott. That actually makes a difference, and makes me lean more towards a call otr.
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote
02-14-2012 , 04:17 PM
Again with the passivity and bet-sizing? BA, your last several threads have been weird passive underbet/don't raise/then get MUTB scared in the face of aggression at the end. WTF? Bet flop, reraise turn. Why play a PP if your going to do this? Four-handed no less against a guy who opens a lot? Unless his c-bet percentage is like 40%, here's a hint: Just because you've "never seen him bluff" doesn't mean he's not bluffing. As played, call.

I look forward to the results where he turns over KsTs.
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote
02-14-2012 , 09:24 PM
Yeah this spot is ****ing disgusting...

He's not doing this with KsX, otherwise you'd definitely know that he has a tendency to overplay hands/his frequencies would be way out of whack...

Back to flop really quick, because this is a blind battle(I'm assuming no chopping in this game, otherwise he might have a super strong range for playing), I think I'd raise flop, basically becaus your not going to get a lot of credit and he'll probably call down multiple streets with good top pair on certain board run offs.

Ok now on the river...I think if he's more of the "rich guy who will overplay hands" or not really thinking much past "I has the nut flush, arrr in" then call. Otherwise, I think your beat here pretty often. It'd definitely be a tough spot in the moment.
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote
02-15-2012 , 06:28 AM
Raise flop.

As played pretty easy fold.
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote
02-17-2012 , 02:03 PM
OP, neither the flop call nor your turn bet sizing are anything close to standard, yet you don't provide any explanation or thought process for these plays in your post. You also don't even give stack sizes so we don't know what SPR is on the flop.
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote
02-17-2012 , 02:27 PM
why did you play the flop like this?
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote
02-20-2012 , 02:09 PM
call as played, raise flop
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote
02-20-2012 , 02:18 PM
Call even though he will see how bad you played the hand.
10/20 live, bottom full house facing pot-sized river shove Quote

      
m