OK, same game as my previous thread where I spazzed with K6. Villain #1 is a solid young former online player who understands position, knows how to exploit other people at the table, but is probably too tight, especially for this type of game. He's so tight that even though he's a good player and usually buys in for the max (5K), I don't mind him on my left since he's in so few pots to begin with.

Recent history with him is that I opened cut off to 65, he 3 bet to 200 from the SB, I made it 500, and he pushed for a little less than 2K with AK, I had AA. He was pretty steamed after the hand, and made some comment about how I always am full of **** and the one time I have a real hand he runs into it. He went to the cage and bought back in for 4700 or 4800, where the max is 5K, so I'm pretty sure that this is his last bullet for this evening.
He starts the hand with 4800 and I cover. Since that hand he has been calling a LOT more preflop, like vpip of 70+, and loves to play pots when I'm in it.

Villain #2 is a tight straight forward player who I don't think I've ever seen get out of line. He has about 1600 to start the hand.

Preflop Villain #1 opens to 60 from UTG + 1 (that's his standard open) and he got 3 callers including villain #2 from MP and I call in the BB with 66

Pot is 310

Flop is A65

I check, villain #1 bets 200 (this is never a bluff), villain #2 raises to 500 (this is never a bluff, not sure it could even be a semi bluff), and it's folded to me.

Should we get cute, and call hoping villain #1 comes over the top, or should we just play it safe and raise?


Hand #2, this happened about 1 hour later, and villain #1 is still on a bit of tilt. his stack is around 5K and I cover

This is a round of straddles so blinds are 10-20-40

Preflop 3 limpers and I limp CO with Q7 after seeing button pick up his hand and get ready to muck before I act, he mucks, SB mucks, villain #1 is BB completes and straddler checks.

pot is 250

Flop is KJJ

Checked to me, I bet 140, he c/r to 300, folded back to me, I call

Pot is 850

Turn is 10

He bets 400, our action.

Hand 1:

Hmm. I think flatting or raising is fine. But at the moment with v1 tilting and neither of them bluffing let's build this pot. V1 might call off lighter than normal and pretty sure we're stacking v2 always. Not to get too off topic, but how are we playing AXhh/78hh etc here?

Hand 1: I raise. Villain 2 is calling/shoving your raise with everything hes betting the turn with after you and V1 call, unless a heart hits and then you either lose value or lose the hand. Getting fancy to extract value from Villain 1 isn't worth it because Villain 2 will end up scaring him off from spewing.

It sounds like you have a better shot at inducing out of Villain 1 by raising than flatting the flop. I can imagine him flatting with AK if Hero flats the flop, while I can imagine him spewing with AK if Hero raises the flop. Its better to make Hero the primary villain in Villain 1's eyes, rather than Villain 2.

In any event your OOP on a draw heavy board in a multiway pot, and both villains appear willing to put money in against the Hero when he is at the very top of his range.

Hand 2: This looks like a trivial call to me. Hero has no FE, is on a huge draw, villain is giving a good price to call, and villain is prepared to pay Hero off when he hits.

Hand 1, I would definitely raise in this spot. Trying to get cute could really backfire quickly with a heart of straight draws hitting on the turn against 2 villains. I am thinking somewhere along the lines of a pot size raise. If V1 is on Ax of hearts, you have to make him pay to see it. V2 could easily have 5-5 here and even if he is on some type of 8/7 hearts or Ax hearts, he is going all the way after committing 1/3 stack already. As was previously stated, you may get tilting V1 to call off with AK or something as well.

Hand 2 needs some soul reading if you ask me. His bet sizing really screams like he wants to keep you in the hand OR he has complete air. Most on a drawy board like that are betting much more on flop and turn with either a strong K or a J. Therefore, I would put him exactly on KJ or air. Obviously, he has more air in his range than exactly KJ but you were the one at the table and it would take a read. Given the really tight range, I would probably raise on the turn to figure out where you are. However, if he is competent, he is giong to realize what this means and may allow him to come over the top to put you in a really awkward spot. What do you think the weak bet sizing means? Nuts or air? After that read, I would either plan on getting it in or folding.

based on what? If we flat there and the four-straight or flush hits and we bet our hand looks 100% like a draw... We'd check back all hands worse than a straight w/ sd value and bet all better so there's no way we get paid. No one with half a brain would check call the river when flush or straight hits when 100% of our range that gets to the river and bets has them beat.

I agree they probably don't, but tilted players do dumb things all the time.

I raise hand 1 because of stack depth in combination with too many bad turn cards.

In a 6-way limped pot with deep stacks and probably some bad players I would prefer to check the 2nd nutflushdraw on a paired board IP. Think preflop is debatable too.

On the Turn I agree that you probably do not have a lot of implied odds but you definately have reverse implied odds. Against a value range of {AJs,KJs,QJs,J2s+,AJo,KJo,QJo,J7o+} you have 21% equity. Even if you put some flushdraws or QT (which he might check at least some % of the time on the turn) in calling seems marginal at best.

"He was pretty steamed after the hand, and made some comment about how I always am full of **** and the one time I have a real hand he runs into it." was in the OP... not disagreeing with you, but hes giving us a great price to draw and its an easy bet/fold on the river if we hit.

1- flat/get cute.

2- 3-bet flop.

Resutls: Hand #1 I raised to 1300, villain #1 gave a disgusted look, threw up his hands, and quickly folded. Villain #2 said ("55 or 66), and also quickly folded. I'm pretty sure both of them had good aces. Oh well.

Hand #2 I raised the turn to 1400, and he tanked and then folded. Pretty sure he's folding every non boat there, and his most likely hand is Jx or Kx.

hand 2:
would you make the same raise with a boat (or a straight)? i mean, i would assume you are raise/folding ott, right? if so, i don't think you need to make the turn raise so big. i think 1100 - 1150 does the same job (implied monster bet on the river if he calls ott) and lets you off cheaper when he ships it with a boat.