I just found this one in my notes, so can't remember much specific about Vs.

1/3 NL, approx 50BBs effective (hero covers by a lot)

V1 LP old man. Not an OMC, but much more likely to call than to raise (about $150)

V2 Gambloor/LAG. ($100)

Hero has KdQd in BB. Limped pot and Hero checks (one other V in here, I think)

Pot: $12
Flop AdJdJs

Hero leads for $11

V1 Min-raises to $22

V2 shoves for $96

Hero?

11 outs to the non-nuts and only 1 clean out. Is there really a question here?

Raise pf, fold flop to the shove.

Snap fold. Unless old man shows you JJ and the bad beat jackpot is very big.

+1 to both previous posts

Whilst I agree about the non-nuts comment, AA is really not possible in this hand, imo, and AJ and JJ are only possible for V1, imo.

lol
I saw the title and wondered what new poster was coming in here looking for advice.
Didn't even see the person who posted it till I read it again.
Well played Garick...

Pretty much snap folding to the shove.
Not really sure why we should be doing anything else.

Although having said that, I'm likely to break a few casino rules and try to suss out if someone has JJ here, because if they do, we pretty much have to call. We are 4% to hit, so we only need our share to be $1,925 for it to be a break even call. So assuming the winning hand gets 25% BBJ only needs to be $7,700 for this to be profitable just to call for the BBJ value alone.

I agree with you about 90% of the time but when I disagree, ...

You're behind in equity any hand that has an ace or jack which means you're never getting called by worse. That means you were bluffing. When you get raised, and you were bluffing, I think you have to fold.

Why in the world would you lead this flop?

BBJ is just over $100K

Still snap fold bud.

If 100K BBJ is in play, hero shoves and says "One time" :-)
If no BBJ, snapity fold.

Cool hand.

I meant by this that these hands are in V1's range, but not V2's. Not that they are the sum of V1's range. V1's range, IMO, is AJ-AK, J9s, and all combos of JT/JQ/JK.

V2 has J2s-JTs,and J8o-JTo, maybe some combos of JQo or JKo, but he usually raises those pre. Not sure if there are any aces in V2's range here, but I doubt it.

Haha ... minimum hand is quads or Aces full of ??

Fold to flop shove.

Raise pre. As played fold, but BBJ possibility might tip the scales, even though shoving a boat/quads here would be incredibly stupid.

No it wouldn't.

Hypothetical, Let's say BBJ is Quads or better. And villain shows us JJ. Winning hand gets 25%. Jackpot is 100k. So we would get 25k if we hit.

We're 4.44% to hit the royal. 0.0444 x 25k = $1,110 in equity and we have to "invest" $140 more. This is close to an 800% return. That's an absurd ROI with such a low ROR.

Yeah, but V would have to be really stupid to shove JJ on the flop. That's my point.

If most effective stacks are smallish 50bbs then I would raise preflop in order to commit postflop with TP. If there are some non-ABC in-position huge stacks involved, I'm fine with the see-a-flop route.

If there are some bluffers in the mix, I might check/raise in order to shove any turn. Otherwise, I probably just donk small here, like 1/2 PSB, just to see if that takes the pot (and build one while I have decent equity). With stacks this relatively small, I don't think anyone is ever folding an A (or obviously a J), so I'm not actually very excited about getting stacks in versus a raise as I doubt we have FE and aren't exactly crushing anything that wants to get stacks in (apart from worse draws).

We have to be sucking up more than our fair share of equity if we end up all-in 3way, no? And with dead money in the pot, I'm hoping that even if we end up HU that we're going to have enough equity in the pot. So I don't think we can fold? Since we're on a draw I'm guessing we want the other guy to come along to pad the pot for us, so the best way to invite him is to just flat instead of shove (although admittedly both plays look pretty strong).

ETA: I suck at stoving; are we expecting ourselves to really be in that bad of shape? V2 is a shortstack gambloorer LAG that should have a hugely wide range here. And if V1 is aware of V2 then he will often slowplay his monsters instead of minraising. If we end up getting all the money in here 3way, we're expecting our equity to be less than 1/3rd (not to mention the dead money offsetting stuff even more)? I'm ignoring the BBJ stuff (and don't think it applies here as I doubt anyone is idiot enough to play a made BBJ hand this strong).

GIthink?G

Given the.action he saw in front of him and that I block most of his FDs, I expect gambloor to have a J near 100% of the time. Given the.min raise, I expert V1 to have a big ace and or a J here pretty much always. I think I have.about 20% equity.

Obv a fold without BBJ. Trying to figure BBJ equity made this close, imo. And I had no idea how to figure that at the table.

As I say, I suck at stoving, but if you give both villains a range of Ax (not including AA/AJ) and KJ-J8 (not including JJ), which I think is a reasonable tight range, then our equity is about 39% (if I've used PokerStove correctly, which it is very possible I haven't). Throw in a wider range for laggy V2 (draws and random time-to-go-home **** which should offset wider Jx range), and we should be laughing. No?

GsucksatstovingG

Why didn't you include the catch (BBJ) in the OP then?

Didn't mention BBJ to see what folks thought before it came up. GG do we really see a somewhat gambly V Cold three betting an ace here?

Results:

I don't know how your 1/3 NL games run, but a $100 stack at my 1/3 NL game is gotten in pretty easily, especially by gambloor / lag. And if he's got a draw, this is an insta-ship by him, right? (and I didn't even throw in draws in my stove)

GimoG

Generally, I'd say he.gets in draws, but less often on paired boards and way less often after OM raises my lead. Given that I block most of his FDs and all SDs are gut shots, I don't really see many, if any, draws in his range

Folding and not thinking about it at all.

Even being results oriented in this particular case (which ain't a great spot), I think we have 35% equity. Haven't done the actual EV math to see how this works out, but I'm guessing that it's +EV $$$-wise even in this result, no?

Gmath,smath;thequestionis,doyoufeellucky,punk?G

Raise pre. Fold.