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1/3NL, Deep stacked, OESD very badly played 1/3NL, Deep stacked, OESD very badly played

04-29-2011 , 06:25 PM
Late into a session. My table just broke and I've been at this new table for a couple orbits. I have no reads at this time except I've barely seen villain1 in any pots. My default assumption is villain1 is weak tight. I'm a reg and I've never seen him before. He looks 25 and I'd say his ethnicity was a pacific islander.
Villain2 is a middle-aged white guy who just sat down maybe 3 hands ago. Hasn't played a hand yet.

Hero (CO) $900
Villain1 (MP) covers
Villain2 (B) $300

2 Limps to hero in CO with AJ
Hero raises to $15
Villain2 calls.
1 limper folds.
Villain1 calls.


Sizing: I don't know my pf sizing for this table yet. The major action player just busted out, and this is the first hand that's been raised since he left. $15 is my standard raise without knowing table conditions.

Flop ($45)
T98

Villain1 donk bets $35
Hero raises to $105
Villain2 mucks
Villain1 calls.

Turn ($255)
K

Villain1 checks
Hero checks

______
So at this point I've bloated a pot where I'm almost certainly behind, but I thought my line represented flopped straights, sets, 2pair and pair+straight draws. When villain flatted my semi-bluff OOP, in the moment I thought villain was likely slowplaying QJ. He looked pretty strong. But since I can't put villain on one hand, top 2 pair, sets, and JT was the rest of my range for him. My plan with my semibluff was to hopefully bloat and hit (ldo), and if that doesn't work, then take my free card when checked to, but it wasn't much of a free card, although my raise did chase Villain2 out of the hand.

Thoughts up to here? How many of you just flat without correct odds otf? Does anyone fold here? What's our plan for the river?

Thanks.
1/3NL, Deep stacked, OESD very badly played Quote
04-29-2011 , 06:40 PM
I dont mind raising draws sometimes, but I cant see someone donking into 2 others lightly on a flop this coordinated. Id probably just call, but given your description of the villain a fold isnt bad either. Your draw is extremely obvious, so odds are you arent getting much action once you hit unless youre chopping/beat.

As played, Im done with the hand unless we hit. If we hit and the villain bets, I call depending on the size. If he checks, I make a 1/3-1/2 pot size value bet.
1/3NL, Deep stacked, OESD very badly played Quote
04-29-2011 , 07:30 PM
i'd fold flop generally. The problem is if we do bink our cards, the board will be so coordinated that we only get paid off if the villain decides to spaz or hero. There may be some value if the A hits, but even thats marginal at this point with the board.

If i do decide to play then i would raise as you did(nice job) and if he calls the flop i'm done with the hand unless i hit or i pickup on a read that he is drawing too or has very marginal value(9 or 8)and will fold the river. Which probably doesnt happen that often.
1/3NL, Deep stacked, OESD very badly played Quote
04-29-2011 , 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Accomplice
Late into a session. My table just broke and I've been at this new table for a couple orbits. I have no reads at this time except I've barely seen villain1 in any pots. My default assumption is villain1 is weak tight. I'm a reg and I've never seen him before. He looks 25 and I'd say his ethnicity was a pacific islander.
Villain2 is a middle-aged white guy who just sat down maybe 3 hands ago. Hasn't played a hand yet.

Hero (CO) $900
Villain1 (MP) covers
Villain2 (B) $300

2 Limps to hero in CO with AJ
Hero raises to $15
Villain2 calls.
1 limper folds.
Villain1 calls.


Sizing: I don't know my pf sizing for this table yet. The major action player just busted out, and this is the first hand that's been raised since he left. $15 is my standard raise without knowing table conditions.

Flop ($45)
T98

Villain1 donk bets $35
Hero raises to $105
Villain2 mucks
Villain1 calls.

Turn ($255)
K

Villain1 checks
Hero checks

______
So at this point I've bloated a pot where I'm almost certainly behind, but I thought my line represented flopped straights, sets, 2pair and pair+straight draws. When villain flatted my semi-bluff OOP, in the moment I thought villain was likely slowplaying QJ. He looked pretty strong. But since I can't put villain on one hand, top 2 pair, sets, and JT was the rest of my range for him. My plan with my semibluff was to hopefully bloat and hit (ldo), and if that doesn't work, then take my free card when checked to, but it wasn't much of a free card, although my raise did chase Villain2 out of the hand.

Thoughts up to here? How many of you just flat without correct odds otf? Does anyone fold here? What's our plan for the river?

Thanks.
B/f $200 on the turn, jam river? Anybody? Bueller?

What if Villain didn't look really strong when flatted the semi-bluff? It feels like it's gotta be really hard for Villain to make it to showdown for 300bb if he doesn't come over the top on the turn.

Flop is a fold or raise. Definitely don't like calling. Shutting down now is obviously perfectly fine and most certainly the best decision, especially if Villain appears to be genuinely strong/attached to the hand.
1/3NL, Deep stacked, OESD very badly played Quote
04-29-2011 , 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark82880
B/f $200 on the turn, jam river? Anybody? Bueller?

What if Villain didn't look really strong when flatted the semi-bluff? It feels like it's gotta be really hard for Villain to make it to showdown for 300bb if he doesn't come over the top on the turn.

Flop is a fold or raise. Definitely don't like calling. Shutting down now is obviously perfectly fine and most certainly the best decision, especially if Villain appears to be genuinely strong/attached to the hand.
personally i would sometimes, but its probably better to keep the advice more general unless the OP can give specific reads.
1/3NL, Deep stacked, OESD very badly played Quote
04-29-2011 , 09:19 PM
Once you raise a flop on a line like this, I think you have to continue on the turn. If you dont have the stone to double barrel a line like this, fold flop.

All in all, he's probably not donking w/ nothing. You are trying to make him fold a real hand here, it will take more than one street. Unless you have a read that he will fold to one or several bets (which is entirely possible), you should fold.

I personally hate calling here. I kind of hate this type of straight draw. So hard to get paid on if you hit, and its always possible that you are drawing dead here.
1/3NL, Deep stacked, OESD very badly played Quote
04-29-2011 , 11:52 PM
At this point, I didn't know that villain was as weak/tight as he turned out to be. He could've been a showdown donkey for all I know. As for double barreling. I thought sets and the flopped straight made up enough of his range that double barreling would be -EV.

The rest of the hand..

River ($255)
K

villain checks, hero?

If villain had flopped a set, he boated up and should've bet, so I didn't think he had a set. Flopped straight looking for c/r on the turn would've been scared of the full house. Two pair got counterfeit and would fold to any bet...
1/3NL, Deep stacked, OESD very badly played Quote
04-30-2011 , 12:22 AM
Check, I see no point in betting, after the call on the flop if you don't hit no bet.
1/3NL, Deep stacked, OESD very badly played Quote

      
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