1/3, 10 players

- Hero sits back and posts blind $3 in CO
- UTG straddle $6, 3-4 callers
- Hero looks down at A5 calls another $3 to "not appear too weak" and assuming passive BTN is folding and straddle isn't going to bump it up (I was 50-50 on that but w/e)
- Avg stacks are around $250

- Straddler is a young, loose-aggressive fish with a clue. He bets big with big hands and small with draws/bluffs/semi-bluffs. Perceives Hero as tight.
- Hadn't seen other V much so readless. Assuming tight.

Flop ($36): 885
Straddler leads for $12, random next guy calls, others fold, Hero (last to act) calls

Turn ($72): 9
Straddler checks, next guy bets $21, Hero raises to $80

Thoughts?

Misread the board, nevermind

The betting is so weak I don't mind the bluff. Just be ready to give up if your called, if called you are likely crushed.

Preflop is meh, imo. In position getting these odds, I can understand our desire to complete here. But I simply don't play Axo < ATo; for example, I wouldn't have overlimped it here (although I understand we're getting far better immediate odds in this completing case). Plus we still have 4 people behind us that can go after all the dead money. Meh.

I'd fold the flop. EP guy may or may not be bluffing / semibluffing, but first caller definitely has something (and could easily have an 8 not wanting to raise out the field behind, or easily something better than us like 66). Ya, we're getting a good price and in position, but so what when there's a decent chance we're drawing dead. Also, the more money we're putting in postflop in spots like these, the more we should be folding preflop, imo.

Ug, and now the only draw gets there and we're making a move? We really think 66 is betting this turn when the guy behind him can be slowplaying 8x? 8x is never folding, and neither is 76, and those are the most likely hands, even with a lol bet size. Heck, the EP checker might even be checking these hands for fear of being up against better.

Gmyguessisthisallworkedlikeacharm,butIdislikeevery streetG

It just feels like a totally unnecessary spot to me. I guess we're repping a 67 or good 8 and we'd likely fold out a 9x... but there's every chance that we're repping exactly what V2 has.

+1

GimoG

i'm not saying not to post (especially in the co) but it seems like nothing good ever happens when you post

Preflop I would either raise to $50 or fold and say something like "well this hand sucks so bad I can't even call 3 bucks!"

As played on the flop I think you can raise for value depending on your read of the opponents. Folding seems a bit weak but it's ok too. Calling is meh because so many turn and rivers suck.

Turn as played I would fold to the $21, this seems like a bad spot to bluff.

fold pre,
ap on flop : fold
ap on turn : fold.

tl;dr : fold.

Yeah limped multi-way pots are not a good spot to rep stuff like this. If you called a raise in position heads up you could flat flop and raise turn and rep this easy against 2 overs....

The one thing you have going for you is the sizing is atrocious (no surprise) so you can raise 4X and look super scary and it's only a pot sized bet. However it's pretty likely someone has a 8 here. Might work enough to validate as break even though. Especially 80 to win 80.

But mostly this....

No, the first guy is never betting $12 otf with 8x. So I had to only get through the second guy. Yes, he could have 8x but with a FD otf, I'm sure he's raising it. Or atleast bets bigger ott. His turn bet screams weakness.

- pre is marginal but OK getting 10:1 in CO.
- probably just fold flop.
- probably just fold turn.
- what better hands fold to your turn "bluff"?

Fold the flop. You might have the best hand now, but you probably won't by the river against two villains. I would call against one player, not two.

Generally I think bluffing two unknown players is a bad idea. I can understand a one-and-done bluff because the action and betting is so weak. I think it's best to fold without any reads on the villains.

You hit a very above average flop and still should fold. This is why folding pre is probably best despite the low cost.

Is there a flush draw on the flop?

GIdon'tseeoneG

I'd call flop because of the phenomenal odds, being in position, and cause of the read of the opener leading small with draws. I'd fold turn, partially because the draw came in.

Yes, sorry. It was 2 clubs.

Board texture is important.

All things considered, I don't like this spot. 2nd villain could have 8x or 9cXc neither of which he is likely to fold. I don't find his bet to be all that weak considering he doesn't seem too concerned with the 9. Also, we have no reads on villain. We should only be bluffing like this when we can reasonably range villain and at this level expect some players to still call you with the exact weakish range that your bluff was targeting.

Your reasoning for completing is bad. So what if villains think you are "too weak" ?

honestly, live, i definitely either post HJ and CO at these stakes or get up to get a sandwich or something, because you look like a huge nit if you don't and sacrificing a dollar or whatever in EV is not worth giving you a nitty image

This makes a decent difference.

Ggarbagein,garbageoutG

40 Pre with such a good handle on straddler/tight image or just fold. "Looking weak" is better than losing money and no one cares that you folded CO after posting... If anyone even thinks about it, they'll just assume you had 82

AP, you're just too damn shallow to do this given you need to bet riv if your turn raise is bet-called. Your sizing is right, looks like value, but remaining stack and the presence of a front door FD makes me wonder what kind of folding frequencies you can realistically find here, even on non club rivs.
All in all, very spewy given you're seeing action on a paired board with a FD in front of you and you're (the tight player) in the hand with them... They don't seem to care...

Also, this is not a 'value hand' just because it's occassionally ahead of the weakest parts of two ranges on the turn.

Line is spew. Raise flop if you want to continue. A raise pre is usually better as well.