V ($500, MP): Middle-aged, weekend regfish. Seen him make it $15 OTB over 2 limpers with 69ss, so I assume he raises any two decent cards otb to build pots in position, albeit not paying attention to sizing. Also, I've seen him make it $25 in other positions with premiums like QQ. So in this hand, his range is almost always TT+/AQ+ type hands. Also, he is CAPABLE of cbetting when he whiffs.

Hero ($500, BB): Tight, winning image. V has said at the table earlier "I'm scared to get in pots with this guy".

2 EP limps, V raises to $25, Hero flats with 9s9d in BB, both limpers flat (weak/tight, short-stacked, irrelevant)

Flop ($100): 932hh
Hero ???

Although V could easily and most likely will cbet AK/AQ when checked to, a c/r might make him get away from any OP imo given our image. Flatting is out of question OOP because of the FD on board killing our action on heart turns. So I'm mostly inclined to bet out here hoping he overvalues his OP.

a) Are we donking $75-80, hoping he raises and GII OR atleast building a huge pot by the turn?

b) Are we donking $45-50 to look weaker increasing the likelihood that V raises with OPs? The problem with that though is the FD on board in case he just calls.

Given his comment he probably expects you to play aggressively and do things like donk or x/r. I don't see how he's gonna fold OPs to your x/r given your image. If the limpers donk frequently I would x/r otherwise I'm donking. Four way I doubt he cbets air.

True but there's a possibility. It would suck to scare him away and I believe we most definitely will given our image.

What's your donk sizing? If there was no FD, I guess we could donk smaller, but given the FD, are you looking to donk close to pot?

Bet and hope for a raise. I'd take option A and bet about $75. Good thought process on this hand.

Confused by your first sentence. You said he's afraid of getting into pots with you. Is that because he expects you to play aggressively/has seen you bluff raise or is it because he's just weak tight in general and thinks any raise is a set? If it's the former you absolutely have to fast play your set.

I would probably donk 3/4 pot. Pot donks multiway are scary.

Two hypotheticals:

1) Hero bets $75, limpers fold, V calls

Turn ($250): 4h
Hero bets $150, V goes all-in for $250 more, Hero ???

2) Hero bets $75, limpers fold, V calls

Turn ($250): 4h
Hero bets $150, V calls

River ($550): 7s
Hero ???

He's afraid of getting into pots with me because he's always seen me showing down winners in this session and that too mostly sets (because I was running hot). I don't think he's seen me bluff the number of times we've played. Yeah, he can get stationy but given my image, I think that's 50-50, so I'm absolutely hating c/r a set here.

if hes as bad as u say then u need to think about your perceived lines
did those winning lines look simple? or were they tricky looking?
if ur past value lines that he saw looked something like bet bet bet flip winning hand,then i advise you to check/call this flop and bet if he checks back on turn, if you've took lines such as double c/r or check call c/r i advise you to just donk the pot like 50 and see whats up, from what youre saying im assuming u took relatively simple solid looking value winning lines, so i think he'd call with his range. DO NOT c/r because he doesn't have much here often enough to be calling and stacking off-- unless you think he would call your c/r w JJ and if he is then uhhhhhhhh do it

A) I would bet about $225 on the turn and call a shove. Even if V has the flush, we have the odds to hit a boat/quads. Hero has to bet to protect against single heart hands and is never checking or folding. Life is easy with appropriate bet sizing.

B) I may check the river, but I'm never folding. Read dependent on whether I would shove or check.

So if V calls yours $225 bet in the second scenario, the pot is now $700 and you have $175 left. Are you really checking? V's hand is clearly an OP or a turned flush, and if you're "never folding", why c/c and not shove instead? He will always check an OP behind and bet his flush.

Before I read your a), I was thinking donking $65.

I call a jam on the turn and jam the river; I'm not sweating a flush much against a pre-flop raiser.

I call a jam on the turn and jam the river; I'm not sweating a flush much against a pre-flop raiser in these circumstances.

It's very read dependent. However, hero has zero fold equity against hands that are better, ie flushes. I think flushes worse than Q high might check down. Not incredibly likely, but there is a chance. Most overpairs that called with an h would fold. No point in shoving if only better hands call and we might save $175 against SC flushes.

I don't expect V to check behind any flushes because I would never check the river with a flush either. Also, there's a good chance he feels pot-committed for only a 1/4 PSB with a huge OP and feels mandatory to call it off.

A heart will only hit ott 23% of the time, that shouldn't be enough to remove c/c'ing from the list of options.

I'd c/r otf. If 2 or 3 of the other players have put in flop money when it gets back to you, then a c/r probably won't lose both/all 3 of them. If the limpers check to the main V and he c-bets 4-way he's strong enough that he isn't b/f'ing and I wouldn't c/r huge, but c/r a size that'll get him to call with TT/JJ.

Bet, bet, bet line all day long. You want to get your stack in and need to start building that pot.

One of the limp callers could easily have a FD, straight draw or even smaller set. Original raiser easily could have over pair.

At this level too many people are trap happy and can't imagine anyone else thinking different than they do. Highly likely opponents wouldn't put you on a monster made hand when you donk because never in a million years would they play it that way.

Therefore I donk for 60 and hope for 1 field caller chasing a flush along with PF raiser having an over pair. Heck you might even get a raise from someone with an over pair protecting against flush draw.



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Grunch--I lead weak (40-45) like I'm trying to price my FD. Then I jam if he raises and I read him for strength.

The benefit to the weak lead is that V will peel AQ/AK a good % of the time and can occasionally spaz raise. If I read him for spaz, I call and check/call turn.

A big lead isn't terrible, but it folds out a lot of hands we want in and reduced his spaz frequency a ton.

A few things:

1. You're more likely (34% of the time) to improve to a full house than someone with a flush draw is likely to improve to a flush (less than 32% of the time).

2. You don't even know whether anyone is on a flush draw

3. No betting is going to change the cards that come.

Why is flatting out of the question?

First, notice how a big $25 raise was called in not just 1 spot, but 3 spots (this is in reference to your other thread regarding you thinking raising to $25 is only getting action from better hands - which clearly isn't the case).

Anyhoo, I also flat preflop. It's not ideal. We're OOP which will make it so much more difficult to get the necessary chips in postflop. Plus there's no guarantee that anyone else will call (which would be extremely helpful for immediate odds, shrapnel implied odds, as well building a big pot where we can start making up some big bets immediately on the flop if we hit). If raiser was a good player who is extremely unlikely to stack off with an overpair against tighty us, plus this was likely to only go HU, I think an argument for folding could definitely be made here.

On the flop, the SPR is ~5ish which means we could easily get stacks in with 3 2/3 PSBs. The board ain't incredibly drawy (true, it has a flush draw, but other than that it is unlikey anyone has a straight draw or two pair draw). In multiway pots, I would tend just to donk here. I would go on the small side which makes it look like a "see where I'm at / betting my flush draw" bet. I think $60ish is fine. My plan would typically be to three barrel for stacks, although if Villain is super aware of our image there could be an argument for checking the turn.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Even though on this board I'd be cooler with a slightly smaller donk, I'm still cool with a 3/4 PSB.

I'm also cool with the 2/3 PSB on the turn as it sets things up for an easy 1/2 PSB shove on the river.

I'm getting in all the money in both cases with top set.

GcluelessNLnoobG