Not much history with villain, but from the few hours of the session I've played against him seems somewhat spewy.

I raise to $12 with 8c9c in middle position, Folds to villain who makes it $25 on the button.

Flop comes 7c8h4s. I lead for $30, villain min-raises to $60, I flat. Turn comes a 4d, I check and villain shoves all in for $175 and I cover. ???

His minraise there seems like a big draw to me, He could have a lot of suited connectors that I think he's capable of doing this with. Would he shove a 4 or 88/77 here? He would have rr KK/JJ pre I'd think.

Fishy villains don't normally raise with a draw. And the best draw that he can have here is an OESD which isn't very big...

u also have blockers to a straight draw, the min raise from villain is usually a strong hand, fold u just have tp weak kicker, and no real redraw to a better hand
Fold PRE

You didn't tell us what the starting stacks are, i'm assuming 100bb.

A minraise should serve as a warning sign, tread carefully, call and basically hope to flop gin.

Leading out is just terrible, you want to be pot controlling and hoping to turn a straight draw or two pair.

Once you bet, you inflate the pot and decimate your implied odds. V raises, and now your implied odds have gone to hell and you are getting sucked into an escalating pot with a good chance you are behind.

You are smoking some pretty good crystal meth. I have no idea how you can even think of this as a viable read.

There are two strong possibilities here.

#1, he is monster, KK or AA. The reason I think this is because minraises are what fish love to do when they are monster and in position

#2, he is a super LAG that loves to make moves and if full of FPS (fancy play syndrome) and his range is more or less ATC (any two cards)

In a vaccuum, I would say this scenario breaksdown as 90% #1 and 10% #2


What the hell is going on inside that head of yours? What exactly does someone have to do for you to think they actually have a hand?

He raises you every single chance he can get and then he shoves river on you and you think he may not have a real hand????

this is self serving donk think that has no basis in reality. All this happens and you somehow convince yourself he's drawing???

Sure, its possible, but not likely. What is likely is that you are crushed.

Or to put this another way, what the hell has to happen for you to think you are behind????

I was going to respond, but I agree with everything that dgiharris wrote and the tone is much better than I could ever do with regards to how you played this hand.

Ok. I was the villain here. My hand was ATh.

I jammed the turn because I figured his flop call gave him a hand that couldn't and shouldn't call a river shove.

I'd think he would've pushed the flop RR with sets and QQ/AA. He ended up calling the all in with his 8. I just don't understand how. Was I that transparent?

PS binked A on river but doesn't matter. Soul read by him? Or donk call?

Fold

I am so confused by your follow on post, but I would say WHY ARE YOU BLUFFING A SPEWY VILLAIN WHEN HE'S ALREADY REPRESENTED STRENGTH?

This V doesn't fold! Bet into him with the nuts, not air!

You played this 100000% wrong.

This is why I rarely bluff at the 1/2nl and 1/3nl level.

Your line is super obvious as a strong hand, any thinking player would fold but the donks at this level rarely think past level I.

Hope you learned a valuable lesson here

#1 You should be PRISON raping your villains when you are ahead because most of them can't fold
#2 You shouldn't be bluffing Villains until you've seen them laydown big hands and proven themselves capable of folding

Why are you reversing the action in your third post? Looking douchy isn't a great way to start. Responders put a lot of time into comments. Now nobody knows who any of the starting info refers to, etc., etc.

Well. I just wanted to see how my line looked from a heros perspective, how is that douchey? I was perplexed by the call and wanted to see what others thought. Sorry if I was out of sorts.

fold at almost every spot

So you were playing somewhat spewy and a 1/3 player called your shove with top pair? Wow, who would have thought it.

Make sure your opponent is a 2+2 poster the next time you want to try this bluff, because apparently most of us would have folded.

P.S. You'll probably get better advice from these forums if you just post your hands from your own perspective to begin with.

Two points

#1, It doesn't bother me when people post from the other POV

#2, I'm perplexed that you are perplexed that a fishy 1/3nl villain would call you down and stack off with top pair

Now the bold is key here and a major leak on your part.

If you don't have an understanding of basic donk and fish pyschology then you are going to not only miss out on lots of value, but it may also render you a losing player.

You will be one of those players that perpectually bitch about how you can't beat these donks because they are just too terribad


You've got to learn that the majority of players don't play like you, don't think like you, and see the game completely different from you.

You have to evolve and be capable of seeing the game from multiple perspectives.

You've got to be able to see the game as a fish, donk, recreational player, gamboooler, aggro, passive, nit, TAG, LAG, bum hunter, shark, etc. etc.

Ultimately, poker is about adjusting to the particular dynamics in question, the better your ability to adjust and exploit, the more profitable you will be...

From your post, I seriously question if you are a profitable player at this limit. Not becausee you don't understand the fundamentals of the game, but because you seem to have an inability to understand your opponents and then alter your game accordingly.

You're pretty much hitting the nail on the head here. And to be honest, since I started putting in a lot of live volume again since mid Jan I'm down about a buyin. I was down about 8 buyins before I started to realize tricky plays and bluffs are not the way to approach this or any other low stakes game and started to try adjust. I still Thing is, the kid who called me SEEMS like he's capable of being a thinking player. I dunno if he had me pegged or just can't fold top pair. You're right tho. Its overall probably not a profitable way to approach the game.. Thinking player or not he's still playing 1/3.

Thanks btw dgi. Appreciate your input!

The hardest, and I mean the absolute hardest thing about the 1/2nl and 1/3nl games is to believe what your eyes are telling you...

and that is that the majority of these players really are as terrible as they seem.

It literally is mind boggling, a part of you just automatically assumes that the player must have been on some Level II or Level III busted play or was able to read you a certain way and that is why whatever player did whatever they did...

no. No. that is not the case.

What is the case is that the player is a Level I fish that just doesn't have a freaking clue.

Here is an exercise I want you to try.

Next time you play, I want you to listen, truly listen to the table talk, particularly the poker theory they will argue.

fish and donks have a completely different view of the game. They play to "not lose". They play "must call" poker.

I can't tell you how many times i've had 76 on a 5 4 3 J 2 rainbow board. I overbet shove pot on the river, something offensive like betting $300 into a $50 pot and I will get SNAP CALLED by ANYONE who has an Ace.

Think about that. No, stop and think about that. I've been in that situation where THREE players called with the Ace and then they all said, "Well, I had the straight, I HAD TO CALL!!!!"

When I play 1/2nl and 1/3nl I mentally get the picture of being in a Ferrari driving through a school zone.

I feel that my game is like a Ferrari, it is complex, amazing, fantastic, breathtaking....

But when I play 1/2nl, 1/3nl, and even 2/5nl, the vast majority of my game just isn't needed. I have to "shift down" my game and basically drive my Ferrari at 15 mph.

Think about how frustrating that is. My game wants to be taken out and driven on a race track, taking curves at 180 mph...

But that just wouldn't be a good idea nor profitable because what is profitable is the ABC boring paint-by-numbers poker 95% of the time.

It took me a while to learn the above, that 95% of the time, my Ferrari of a game needs to be shifted down a driven like a station wagon taking the kids to school...

The 5% in which I let my game loose is in very specific situations vs very specific villains in very specific circumstances...

anyways, good luck.

You've just got to internalize and understand how and why the players are as bad as they are. Open your ears, listen to the table talk and their rationalizations, and learn how to think like them so you can better exploit them...