I think I messed up w sizing, let me know what you think.

Hero – Mid 30’s white guy, been playing at the table for a bit over hour at this point, been somewhat active preflop with a few 3 & 4 bets. TAG image. $500
V1 – Asian guy, 20’s, seems nitty, haven’t seen him play or open a hand since I’ve sat down. $250
V2 – Asian guy, 20’s, loose, easily has a VPIP over 40%. Seems passive. $180

1/3 - 8 Handed
V1 opens UTG to 20
Hero calls UTG+1 w QcQd – I would usually 3bet this at a high frequency, but against this player type I decided to flat.
V2 calls SB
BB folds

Pot $63
T82 Rainbow
V2 Check
V3 Check
Hero bet $25
V2 Call
V1 Call

Pot $138
Turn T82 4C – Bringing in backdoor clubs.
V2 Check
V1 Check
Hero bet $80 – Fairly confident that I’m good here when checked to the second time.
V2 calls
V1 tank folds, accidentally reveals he has JJ when mucking.

My question is did I bet too large on turn to expect to get called by worse, should I have gone for a smaller sizing on flop and turn vs this type of opponent, or does the fact that we’re miles in front of V2 incentivise us to bet larger?

Also, is flatting pre ok at these stakes against this V/player type?

I think the only mistake here is not 3betting QQ vs a 6.66~bb open off of 80bb stacks

Thanks, I thought this might be the case.

I would flat sometimes vs this player type, this position, and this sizing. I think the hand is well played.

I'm cool with the whole hand / sizing / overall thinking and think it is completely reasonable.

GcluelessNLnoobG

In a raked game, taking down the 20 and the blinds with a 3b! QQ preflop is victory in my book. Flatting at 80 bb eff makes very little sense. GG is normally advocating setting up low SPR/GII in these situations and I don't understand his advice here.

There's no realistic set of ranges/actions that you can give the opener that would make flatting QQ here vs a 6.66bb open off 80bb in a high rake environment better than 3betting. If you think his range is only KK+ then fold pre

playing vs someone for one hour is nowhere near enough info to not 3b this hand pre

Dude hasn't played a hand in an hour at the table and now raises 7x UTG. "Seems nitty" is an ok read to have at this point (and massively confirmed given his postflop play), so not a horrendous spot to deviate from the 3bet norm, see what happens, and adjust accordingly afterwards.

Git'shardlyhorrible,imoG

What is a range of hands he could be opening where call would outperform raise or fold? Lol this is silly

Heads up, to capitalize on bluffs without them costing too much, and to stay opaque, I aim to c-bet a dry, static flop 1/3 pot, a wet, dynamic flop 2/3. The decision is only about whether to c bet, never how much. Multi-way bet sizes go up a bit, and have less c betting, much depends on reads. If I continue to bet the turn, it’s always 2/3 pot heads up.

So your bet sizing is good!

It's 80BB effective stacks with a 7x open. Just 3bet and be prepared to call off a jam. Anything else is just overthinking. You don't want to be playing this 5-way from EP

I presume you didn't post river because it went check-bet-call on whatever card it was? You could just jam turn given how shallow you are

I have to 3-bet this hand from this position. If I'm on the BTN and everyone else folded to the 20 then I can smooth call, but here I don't like just calling next to act. The guy could just be card dead for an hour. All else seems ok. I would've gone 95 OTT just to maximize and commit SB.

lmao at V1 tank folding an overpair after checking the flop.

I don't think you did anything wrong. It is just going to be hard to get money out of a complete nit. If you set over wet him that'd great, but mainly I would try to cut your losses if this guy starts shoveling money in the pot.

I am guessing V2 is calling you all day with worse and he is the player you should target anyways.

I am not sure what the exact theory is on multiway pots, but generally I am doing something like quarter pot on pretty dry flops like this one, 60% pot on turn. Once the pot gets heads up I resume my normal large sizes.

Idk, I not fine with your turn size... V1 has 250-20-25=205 left and V2 180-20-25=135, the pot is ~140 and you bet 80. If V2 jams you are committed and have to call with your entire range (including bluffs), which is pretty odd. Let's assume V2 folds and V1 x/calls, then he has 205-80 = 125 left in a 140+2*80=300 river pot, which is close to a reasonable stack to pot ratio, but not ideal. Therefore, I think that my only size on the turn is all-in (eff. 205 into 140), which is reasonable, since we want to bet polar anyway.

I 3bet pre, we can just play for stacks 80bb deep without better reads than we have.

I think we could ship the turn since we're pretty committed anyway but w/e.

Thanks all for the input.

Even though the hand basically confirmed my read on V2 I'm trying not to be results oriented, I understand that this is probably a 100% 3bet with these stack sizes, especially with the rake in the game that I'm playing (10%, capped at 5bbs).

Probably could have jammed turn, but I thought turn sizing would have made pot large enough for V1 & V2 to call off most of their continuing range on the river. Funnily enough this wasn't the case, I jammed river and V1 with $50 remaining ended up folding.

Did I read that right: a 5bb = $15 maximum rake at a 1/3 NL game?

That is, um... gross.

Ggoodluckwiththat,imoG