1/3 nl
Hero (320) probably seen as loose, laggy and probably tilty...just lost a big pot the hand before, when hero checked 2 pair from SB on turn and v bet $100 and hero crai v called for ~$150 more and hit his flush on river.

V (~600) rec player pretty bad, on 3rd buy in that I've seen. Calls every pfr and sticks with any tp or FD. I made a lot of money off him calling me down. Only saw him raise twice. Once he limp raised AA from mp and gii against kings pre flop...that's how he got his stack. Another time he went AI for $200+ into a $40 pot...no callers. V called a raise pf for $12 then called a $45 3b oop with J7dd and hit 2 diamonds on flop and called $75 flop bet and then a $175 AI on turn and hit his flush on river to beat KK

Hand
Hero (320) in bb with 45o
5 limpers to hero... Hero checks

Flop (15) Q 4 4 r
Hero x
Villain in UTG+1 x
Random in mp bets $12
Hero calls
V calls

Turn (50) 3h puts 2 hearts on board
Hero x (planning to cr randoms bet)
V x
Random x

River (50) 5h puts 3 hearts on board
H bets $30
V raises to $80
Random folds

The way v has been playing, I fully expected him to have a flush or any Q

Hero ???

it's $50 to call in a $160 pot, so I'm leaning towards calling most of the time
if he would raise with a Q here I'd definitely call this
he could have two pair too, which we still beat

not sure if this type of villain would raise one pair or even two pair when there's an obvious flush on the board though
there's also a (less obvious) straight on the board, though call, really depends on how villain has been playing

Curious, why would you call here? Why wouldn't you reraise or fold? I described villains play above, not trying to berate someone, but to help get an understanding of his play, he was probably one of the least "thinking" players that i have played against in a long time. He has no concept of putting someone on a hand and only sees his cards. What do you think v has?

Btw, there were no straight flush draw possibilities on this board. It was Qh 3h 5h

Oh wow, didn't notice we had a full house ...
Guess we're always raising then? We basically have the nuts? Only QQ and Q4 beat us?

Raise to w/e you think villain will call? I'd say 150-200?
Maybe even just shove since it's pretty likely villain hit his flush?

"I'm all-in"

I shove. Let V level himself into thinking he has a higher flush than we do or a higher straight than we do. We lose to Q4 and 55, we beat 34 and all the straights/flushes (QQ raises pf?)

Don't think he realized we filled up on river.
Definitely raising to about $220 here

Sent from my SPH-D710 using 2+2 Forums

^ bet/3-betting to 70% of our stack looks way stronger than bet/shoving.

When you have a full house against a likely flush it's a classic PR spot, no? Isn't this the situation we all salivate over and it only comes up once every 10 sessions? I think it's a clear disaster not to shove here. We need to target the flushes and 34 in his range, not the queens, and we have no legitimate reason to fear Q4/QQ here. If he has those it's just a cooler.

I'm not sure what to ask a question about really. I guess we can consider whether we shove quickly or tank first. Which is better? I say we shove quickly since that's more likely to make a non thinking villain act quickly (and call), not stopping to consider the full house.

I'm asking because I shoved and got instacalled by QQ and a guy who I consider a decent player said "why didn't you just call there?"... Just trying to verify, in my mind, this was a cooler and not a bad play.

I don't usually get stacked by putting my money in bad, I usually get it in good and get rivered like a normal human being haha. This hand, my friends comment and the hand prior to this, really had me steaming and I actually left the poker room at about 7pm after this happened, something I don't normally like to do on a Saturday night.

Absolutely no way to put this guy on QQ, I might have believed Q4, given his play up to this point, but QQ? This was exactly how I had seen him play several hands with flush draws previously, and I had no reason to think this was any different. The only alarm bell that could have went off was him raising me, because like I said in op , I only saw him raise twice.

You did not mention if the 4 in your hand was a heart. If it was there is no way v has a flush. He didn't call the flop $12 with complete air, and since it was a rainbow flop and the Qh is on board he could only have a flush with the 4h. For the same reason he doesn't have a straight. He either has a 4 or a boat. Do you think he would raise the river with a 4. Remember, this board will look scary to him because he won't realize you don't have a flush or staight for the same reasons above. Based on your description of him I doubt he would raise with a 4 here. And I doubt he would call your shove with a 4. So basically( if the 4 in your hand is a heart) you both have a boat. You are losing to 3 of them. QQ andQ4, both likely based on your description of his preflop play. 55 less likely because of the flop call. And beating 2 of them. 43, likely. And 33, less likely because of his flop call.

Given the pot oddss, its a call. But if you agree that he doesn't have a bare 4 here, and you have the 4h so he can't have a flush, Its not even a great call.

HH, This villain called me down two streets with A9hh on a 10 7 5r flop. I had AT, bet flop, bet turn when a 6r hit... I checked river and he showed his hand and said "I missed"...it took every ounce of self control I had not to say "missed what?"

Like I said, I only saw him raise twice...once with pocket ace preflop on a limp raise and the other one didn't get shown. Every other hand he showed was a WTF moment.

Never ever folding. Pretty easy shove. I like raising flop, get action from a lot worse.

The hand itself seems to be irrelevant and it is more about the villain. What I think you are basically trying to get across to us is this guy will always and has always called with a lot worse. In your mind you was very strong against the range he could call you with (justifying your river shove) and you are disappointed that on this occasion he woke up with the goods. Also I think you are trying to answer your own question highlighting that this guy seldom raises. This could be the key to where you went wrong. In game time I believe you was only considering the strength of your own hand trying to get all the money into the pot that you didn't stop to realise that the river raise indicated monster and although you probably wouldn't fold you should have erred on the side of caution and just called. This happens just learn from it and move on.

Personally though I would have played the hand differently before the river either donking flop or betting turn depending on my game time feel.

make a mental note that this guy isn't actually that good

villain would definitely do this with flushes and maybe even a straight even if the guy never raises he's still raising with a flush
if there's enough reason to believe villain wouldn't, it's a fold, never a call though

QQ & Q4 are both part of his range, but such a small part we should always be shoving here

I'm just pointing out the fact that I only saw him raise twice because that is the only possible flag that could have gone up. I don't feel given what I saw those two times that I could possibly have gotten me away from this hand. Based on what I've seen from this guy, he could have just as easily had Q5. In game time I thought to myself that he might have Q4 but that I was crushing the rest of his range, which could have been anything. Obviously now I know this guy only raises with as close to the stone cold nuts as he can get, but will call you down with ATC. But I never played with him before and his erratic play gave me no reason to worry.


* lesson learned on posting results too soon

jbl

I think my plan on the flop is to not stack off postflop if we just remain at trips. I'm guessing perhaps one way of doing that is to bet/fold each street (perhaps calling a flop raise and treading carefully from there). Another way is to let a street check thru, so I'm fine with just checking (and calling) the flop.

I guess with the flush draw out there now there is some merit in just donking the turn to charge a backdoor draw. I'm also still kinda cool with just check/calling though, but that might be too passive on my part.

Hands that are ahead of us are QQ, 55, Q4 and straight flush (if possible). I'm guessing all those hands could have played the hand this way. The straight and flushes are both backdoors, so they seem a little less likely to me, although I guess they are possible. And of course Villain could be slowplaying a 4x/43/33 (although seems more likely some of those hands might donk turn).

I'm torn. Part of me says don't stack off in a limped pot. The other part of me knows that this guy is probably bad enough to stack off with lottsa worse hands that somehow got there. I probably would have potted the river, and now I probably shove and live with results.

ETA: I wouldn't beat yourself up too much, I think this is entering coolerish territory. If you hadda just stacked off with 4x that would be bad, but with a boat on this board against a chasey player we beat so much.

GcluelessNLnoobG

That's almost the entire 1/2 pool though. It's not just enough to say he's not good. You need to spot his reason for not being good and come up with a way to exploit that.

The guy who said that doesn't understand shoving semi-thin. So if he does make a big river raise he's probably got one of the 2 or 3 best possible hands. And he might make big laydowns otr so if we have the nuts against him, maybe we don't shove otr, it might be better to bet 80% of his stack rather than put him to a decision for everything he has because he might find a fold with the 3rd nut flush.

this forum needs a like or +honor button or something

although completely irrelevant, I learned something!

I'm jealous. All in.

This.

You obviously didn't read the results lol

OK, not jealous any more. Can't see playing it differently given description of Villain + Hero's image.