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1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac 1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac

07-04-2017 , 09:44 AM
It's 1/3, Sunday evening, 9-handed.

Hero ($550) is on the button with As 9s.

Everyone folds to Villain in the cutoff ($500, 95/50) who open raises to $30.

Hero had a couple of bad beats and fell behind early in the session and then worked hard to pull in front. He now has a stack of $550, $250 ahead.

Villain is a white, overweight, mildly inebriated, arrogant, unpleasant lady in her early-to-mid thirties. She arrived on the table about an hour earlier. She plays virtually every hand, raises about half her hands, always at least calls a raise (and often 3bets), always fires three barrels if she is the preflop aggressor, often bluff raises, and will not fold with any showdown value, even second or third pair. She raises about half her hands preflop, and wildly fluctuates in how much she raises, from $10 to $50.

She also overdonkbets the flop when she is the preflop caller of a raise about 50-60% of the time.

She bluffed off her stack in her first two orbits, rebought, and then built her stack up to $500.

What do you do?

Moreover, what range of hands are you willing to play against her?
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 09:48 AM
I think 3bet or call is fine vs described villain. Prefer 3bet.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 09:51 AM
Given the opponent I would call. Ordinarily I would fold. I don't know what i'd do if she 4 bet.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 09:56 AM
Her c-bet percentage by the way is 100%, and her F-cbet percentage is zero.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 10:10 AM
Call the 10X raise and if you hit anything you can call it down
If she is as aggro as you say, you are ahead of her range
If you want to play for stacks then 3bet
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 10:20 AM
Against some LAGs I would go to war with this hand, but if she is really raising 50% of her hands and playing that crazy, just wait a little while longer and I bet you find a better spot. I fold.

You're on her left and shes playing so many hands you can easily wait her out and bust her with a stronger hand. You probably wont have to wait long. Patience.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 10:35 AM
I'm not folding here with this hand Vs this villain ever. I wouldn't be 3betting here either though. I don't see the point in building the pot with Ace high. Just call. This villain will build the pot plenty after the flop. If we hit our hand, we get villain's stack usually. If we miss, we wait for another hand we can use to take villain's stack.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 10:43 AM
A9s is plenty good to play this villain. You're ahead of her range and in position. No need to get aggressive with her unless you have the near nuts. She'll run out of money before she'll figure out you're just going to rope-a-dope her all night.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 01:00 PM
OP, if I recall correctly, you were kicked out of a room one night because you lost it after losing a hand (correct me if I have you mistaken for another poster)? The only reason I bring this up is because you will never encounter a big as emotional roller coaster as you will playing a maniac deep. If you have any tilt / emotional control issues / etc. whatsoever, you should absolutely not be playing at this table deep (you probably should only play at this table short until you double up).

GgoodluckG
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 01:13 PM
Definitely playing. Raising, IMO, is a double-edged sword. It depends on the blinds.
I'd love to fold out a blind with ATo, but the blind has to be the type to do so. I'd have to have the image [style of play] that tells ATo that his hand is behind my range when I raise OTB there.

OTH, you're probably not going to fold out AJo, unless blind is really weak & you are suited.
Then again, Flop comes A86r, blind checks, maniac c-bets & you don't know if blind is going to c/r. So it all boils down to who the blinds are & my image. I don't know that calling pre, hoping both blinds call & flopping a flush draw is optimal. But, like I said: I don't know.

My decision pre would be based on who the blinds are & what they think of me.

Of course, if we raise - and the blinds do fold - we might miss out on getting maniac's c-bet OTF. On the flip side - maniac checks Flop - we bet [after raising pre] V folds & we take down the $$ with Ace Hi.

Disclaimer: My win rate for the last 2500 hours is not 10BBs+, so I am not a Crusher.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZuneIt
Of course, if we raise - and the blinds do fold - we might miss out on getting maniac's c-bet OTF. On the flip side - maniac checks Flop - we bet [after raising pre] V folds & we take down the $$ with Ace Hi. [/I]
most likely scenario is you cbet with air and maybe a bdoor flushdraw and v jams. then you have to call with ace high. or she donks 200 into your face OTF. Why go for such a small edge with position on the villain, call and play postflop poker. i think 3betting AJo+ is a must, but A9 is wide for no reason unless you have a tell blinds will fold.

I like calling a lot more but obviously 3betting is fine too, as long as you never fold unless a very ugly flop.

edit: there's a villain in my room like this, he is more the 98/90 type. I am getting stacks in pre vs him with A9s even 300bbs deep, but this is different because this villain usually plays 1hour and then he spewed off 10 stacks and is leaving, so we have limited amount of time and have to take a lot of ''smaller'' edge. Especially when even the bigger fish at the game are hunting him down willing to gamble.

Last edited by kekeeke; 07-04-2017 at 01:32 PM.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 01:27 PM
I'd play {88+,ATs+,AJo+} so I would have 60% equity against her range. Figuring I'm not going to realize that equity all the time and to allow for rake.

With good reads against her I would open up some to {77+,A7s+,KJs+,A9o+,KQo} From your description she may have bet sizing tells o exploit.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 01:33 PM
I think all plays have merit.

3-betting will set you up for high variance play, but against this specific player I'm fine with it because A9 is ahead of a lot of her range.

Folding and waiting for a better spot with a more premium hand against this kind of lag is fine too. Being patient can pay off. The problem with this is she might spew her chips off to everyone else before you get a piece and if you're card dead, it kind of sucks.

Flatting in position and playing your hand well post flop is fine as well.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuneit
Of course, if we raise - and the blinds do fold - we might miss out on getting maniac's c-bet OTF. On the flip side - maniac checks Flop - we bet [after raising pre] V folds & we take down the $$ with Ace Hi. [/I]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kekeeke
most likely scenario is you cbet with air and maybe a bdoor flushdraw and v jams. then you have to call with ace high. or she donks 200 into your face OTF.
If I hold Ad9d & V checks, I would C-bet 8d6s5d type board. Not one with T8 on it, as in T86. Not even with 2 diamonds - too many hands V could have that work with T8 looking to pound me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kekeeke
Why go for such a small edge with position on the villain, call and play postflop poker. i think 3betting AJo+ is a must, but A9 is wide for no reason unless you have a tell blinds will fold.
Right. I stated, more than once, that the Blinds & their perception of me - play a major part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kekeeke
I like calling a lot more but obviously 3betting is fine too, as long as you never fold unless a very ugly flop.
Is QdJs8s an ugly flop, in your book, when you have Ad9d?
What about KsJdTh?

What if V checks to you on those Flops?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kekeeke
edit: there's a villain in my room like this, he is more the 98/90 type. I am getting stacks in pre vs him with A9s even 300bbs deep, but this is different because this villain usually plays 1hour and then he spewed off 10 stacks and is leaving, so we have limited amount of time and have to take a lot of ''smaller'' edge. Especially when even the bigger fish at the game are hunting him down willing to gamble.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 02:04 PM
I usually 3-bet a wide range for value, as weak as QTo/K9o here, probably. Her post-flop tendencies make me want to flat more, so I'd probably 3-bet my strongest hands and my weakest hands that don't want to play multi-way but still do well against her range. A9s specifically I'd flat.

Folding A9s is literally ridiculous.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZuneIt
If I hold Ad9d & V checks, I would C-bet 8d6s5d type board. Not one with T8 on it, as in T86. Not even with 2 diamonds - too many hands V could have that work with T8 looking to pound me.



Right. I stated, more than once, that the Blinds & their perception of me - play a major part.



Is QdJs8s an ugly flop, in your book, when you have Ad9d?
What about KsJdTh?

What if V checks to you on those Flops?
Honestly the more I think about it the more I think if we 3bet, it has to be to 150-200 and then we just shove blind?. This kind of V is never folding any kind of equity OTF, for example QJ8 she will never fold any 9, any T, maybe any K. She might never fold 22 and then your 9 is also good. She might even call with 67 OTF because she is ''commited''. It'll suck when she turns over Q3 but that's poker and is why I like calling a lot more.

edit: i just don't see this V checking to you in a 3bet pot very often.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
I usually 3-bet a wide range for value, as weak as QTo/K9o here, probably. Her post-flop tendencies make me want to flat more, so I'd probably 3-bet my strongest hands and my weakest hands that don't want to play multi-way but still do well against her range. A9s specifically I'd flat.

Folding A9s is literally ridiculous.
Pretty much this. As far as what I would continue with...
22+, A2s+, K8s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 65s, 54s, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo, T9o, 98o
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 05:04 PM
Call vs raise entirely depends on blinds, Zune's post handled this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solomon_Peabody
Hero had a couple of bad beats and fell behind early in the session and then worked hard to pull in front. He now has a stack of $550, $250 ahead.

Villain is a white, overweight, mildly inebriated, arrogant, unpleasant lady in her early-to-mid thirties.
OP, the quoted parts above are/should be completely irrelevant. The part about you being ahead/behind for the session, I think you know isn't supposed to matter. (Not saying it doesn't, just that it shouldn't. Can happen to most all of us.)

The second part, physical description, should also be completely irrelevant, and I can't help but wonder in what ways your play was affected by your visceral reactions. We fall back on stereotypes like MAWG, YAG, etc when we have limited or no data to use. Here you have tons of data on both her preflop and postflop tendencies. It wouldn't matter if this V was a friendly rich Macau businessman, a total noob, or a woman you seem to find repulsive. It seems like you actively disliked her, and that is a form of tilt. Let that **** go.

Then flop a pair and get paid.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-04-2017 , 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sw_emigre
Call vs raise entirely depends on blinds, Zune's post handled this.



OP, the quoted parts above are/should be completely irrelevant. The part about you being ahead/behind for the session, I think you know isn't supposed to matter. (Not saying it doesn't, just that it shouldn't. Can happen to most all of us.)

The second part, physical description, should also be completely irrelevant, and I can't help but wonder in what ways your play was affected by your visceral reactions. We fall back on stereotypes like MAWG, YAG, etc when we have limited or no data to use. Here you have tons of data on both her preflop and postflop tendencies. It wouldn't matter if this V was a friendly rich Macau businessman, a total noob, or a woman you seem to find repulsive. It seems like you actively disliked her, and that is a form of tilt. Let that **** go.

Then flop a pair and get paid.

He's got a point you may have subtly stereotyped her into someone you just dislike for no reason just cuz... fat

Anyway flat here let position work for you and be prepared to be aggressive when she fires. Rather simple. And correctly be able to size your raise to a full pot size raise.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-05-2017 , 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kekeeke
Honestly the more I think about it the more I think if we 3bet, it has to be to 150-200 and then we just shove blind?. This kind of V is never folding any kind of equity OTF, for example QJ8 she will never fold any 9, any T, maybe any K. She might never fold 22 and then your 9 is also good. She might even call with 67 OTF because she is ''commited''. It'll suck when she turns over Q3 but that's poker and is why I like calling a lot more.

edit: i just don't see this V checking to you in a 3bet pot very often.
Good point. And, if we 3! 150 - Blinds only get involved if they have us crushed - so flat pre.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote
07-06-2017 , 12:33 AM
I mean, I have very low concern for variance so take this with a grain of salt...

If V actually plays as you describe (3 barrels 100%), im calling with a huge range to get the stack. "wait for a better spot" is exactly what everyone else is doing and exactly why I find myself regularly beating the other players to the punch. Pretty much any Ax/Kx/Qx youre calling to hit a top pair to call down or raise if you hit more. If you get like 88+ you can basically call down on almost any board, 22-77 can have some funny calldowns on silly boards like 77223 and youve got 44 where yiu crush her range. If she stacks you, oh well, that just means she has more money for you to take heh. I find that high variance play ill get a shot at their stack before anyone else more than half the time, and ill stack them about 75% and get stacked 25%, and when I do lose, may well have another shot or two at her so its no worries.
1/3: Ranges to play against a maniac Quote

      
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