1/3 8-handed

Eff stacks $500

Hero BB: probably looks like a fish, been losing some hands. Ran A high flush against straight flush on a paired board, v2 saw this

V1 LP($180ish): young black guy, seen him call raises with some weird hands but hasn’t been acting up

V2 CO($500): older Asian, just bought in a few min ago

Hand:
Some limps including V1, V2 raises to $15, folds to H with AA who 3! to $40(prolly too small) folds to V1/V2 both call.

Flop(roughly $130): T25 all spades, I do not have the A of spades.

H checks
V1 bets 60, V2 shoves for $460
H?

It’s hard to flop a flush but in my head V2 shove atleast to me shows he has the A of spades.


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Yeah, too small on the 3bet, imo. With multiple limpers in front, I go at least $50, and being OOP, prolly more.

Flop is an easy fold, imo. Overbet shove here is usually a lower flush or a set trying to get rid of the As, and only occasionally an As semi-bluff.

+1. I would size up to 60 but 50 is good. Flop is a slam dunk fold and doesn’t seem close at all.

Same as above. 3bet larger pre.

Fold flop. Best case is As semi bluff.



You have AsKs, AsQs, AsJs, KsQs, KsJs, AA with As, AK with As, and TT in your range to call with here. Once V bets this large, it forces us to only call with very high equity hands.

I find preflop tricky at these stack sizes because any raise size we make will easily put stacks in play postflop so we have to be very careful we don't offer good IO. For instance, our raise size created an SPR of 3.5, which will be virtually impossible to get away from postflop OOP, and yet we offered the raiser very good IO of 20+:1. I typically attempt to offer poor 8:1, but that would be a 3bet to $75, which might not get any action. But I'd at least go in between these sizes and go $60ish.

Think I'm fine with the flop check to see what happens.

Against the shortstacked V1 we're happily committed, so we don't care what he does behind us. Are we committed against V2? I think you could argue that we are. Would a flopped flush really play the flop this way? Not very often, they'd mostly either call or make a small raise and hope to suck us along. So more looks like a smaller overpair (possibly with a spade redraw) or Axs, although it could also be TT. Think we have to mostly sigh call this off at this SPR and given this action.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I was (somewhat) happily calling against V1 but I couldn’t figure if we were committed against V2, V2 being unknown and new to table they could’ve just been bein overexcited and shoved.


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"SPR is not Ed Miller's permission to turn off your brain." -mpethybridge

Smaller overpair is basically unpossible here, with the possible exception of KsKx, imo. Don't think about it as SPR (which is a concept designed for HU pots anyway). Think of it as a 2x pot shove on a monotone board multiway, with 3-bettor still to act and limp/cold-caller having donked out.

KK-JJ is impossible? I'd argue standard given our weak looking check (them deciding to commit against the smaller stack when it looks like we've opted out). And just not buying this is how any big flopped flushes play it (bigger flushes being more common than smaller ones due to preflop action).

The one thing that I admit gives me pause is the size of the bet, as $500 stacks just don't go flying around in my game. But if he thinks we opted out of the hand due to our weak looking flop check (AK, ldo), then he's only playing $180 deep against the shortstack, so this could be a crapload of stuff in that situation.

Not loving it tho.

GimoG

Results:

Hero sigh folds because he don’t know math of making the call or not

V1 calls

Board runs out small with no other spades

V1 shows JJ no spade
V2 shows AK with As


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Just so happened to be the best possible scenario.


But, doesn't matter. You have *so* many better hands to go with for this sizing. AA without spade just aint it for $460 into a $200 pot multiway.

I wouldn't read good much into it. People do this with small flushes and sets hoping another spade doesn't come also. Very hard to know what to do vs an unknown range.