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1/3 OOP with KK

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01-23-2017 , 12:46 PM

businessdude

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 10,913

Played poker the first time in about a year, not that interesting of a hand, but a common one I think I over or under play. Villain, MAW, just sat down, no reads , except saw he was a very talkative player, so maybe I pegged him a little looser than normal.

stacks 270 effective

He raises to 10, folds to me in BB with K

I raise to 30, he calls.

Flop(60) 4

I bet 30, he makes it 100.

Is the standard play here a call with a check/fold on the turn?

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01-23-2017 , 12:51 PM

MIB211

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 3,010

SPR heading to the flop is 4:1. Without an ace hitting the board, I'm never folding here, especially against an unknown.

Out of position, I probably shove. He has 18 combos of TT-QQ, and would have a very hard time laying those hands down too. Of course he has 9 combos of sets as well. If he can have two pair hands like 97, that also means he can have semi-bluffs like 86, T8 or 56.

If we were in position, I'd call flop and get it in on turn. Think call flop, check/fold turn is the worst line here, as he can easily double barrel an overpair here.

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01-23-2017 , 12:56 PM

Dochrohan

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,212

Question is whether to jam or call and c/jam turn or open jam turns.

Can't fold vs an unknown here. He has TT/JJ/QQ a lot more than 44/77/99 and vs that, I want him to not fold. on terrible turns. But I also don't want to make him fold TT.

So pick one of the lines and go with it. I just jam.

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01-23-2017 , 01:49 PM

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,206

I would make it about $45 preflop to prevent setmining odds, since with an SPR of <= 4 we'll be creating a situation where we shouldn't fold postflop.

SPR is 4 on the flop and we have an overpair. Kinda sucks getting raised when our hand looks like what it is, but there's just too good a possibility he's a moron and thinks his QQ-TT is the nuts. If we think he can fold QQ-TT, I just flat, otherwise I'd ship it in now before a card comes that could scare him away.

GcluelessNLnoobG

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01-23-2017 , 02:11 PM

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

$40 pre and easy stuff now

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01-23-2017 , 04:01 PM

niceguy22

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 824

Shove flop.

Its usually not correct to call a raise on the flop if youre planning on check folding the turn on almost all turn cards. Better off folding flop than doing this.

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01-23-2017 , 06:13 PM

businessdude

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 10,913

I actually did push on the flop and he had 97 - but good to see people agree that was a good play

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01-23-2017 , 07:34 PM

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

Yea I mean the name of the game is bet/fold bc people call too much and they don't bluff enough.

But in this circumstance it's a 3bet pot and it's just really hard for him to have value that beats you. I'm not fist pump shoving or anything but I'm certainly not folding and call/hope is not a good play in poker.

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

26,730 trials (Exhaustive)

board: 4

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
KhKd	62.96%	16,830	0
44,77,99,TT,JJ,QQ	37.04%	9,900	0

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01-27-2017 , 07:40 PM

Limpfoldjj

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 144

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dochrohan

Why would you assume he has TT-QQ more than a set? I'm never folding a pair pre when we are 270 deep and it's 20 more to call pre. vs a range of jacks-aces and maybe AK I'm getting the implied odds to hit a set vs most villains.

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01-30-2017 , 12:55 PM

#10

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,206

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limpfoldjj

I'm never folding a pair pre when we are 270 deep and it's 20 more to call pre. vs a range of jacks-aces and maybe AK I'm getting the implied odds to hit a set vs most villains.

Implied odds are a little tricky.

In this case here, the Villain is being asked to call $20 to win $280, so getting what looks like ok implied odds of 14:1 against a most likely face up hand (and admittedly these aren't horrible implied odds, hence why I would have 3bet more preflop). *However*, KK- is unlikey to stack off on A high flops, QQ- is unlikely to stack off on A/K flops, etc., plus there are times Hero loses his stack when he is set-over-setted (it happens), plus even when Hero flops a set the Villain will turn/river a bigger set ~8% of the time (a non-trivial amount) and lose his stack.

GapreflopcallbyVillainisalotthinnerthanyouthink,im oG

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