V1: Young black rec player VPIPing 90% of hands along w/ straddles etc. Super aggro postflop in a lot of hands hes in. More aggro pre than v2

V2: Young middle eastern male with a 99% VPIP and very aggro postflop. Always limp/calls pre.

Gameflow: all hands are going 4-5 way postflop even with raises to 20 due to these two players.

Hero has A T in MP and raises to 20
3 callers including V1 in SB and V2 in BB.

Flop (75) KTK

Check
Check
Check

Turn (75) A
Check
Check
Hero bets 40
Call
Call

River (195) 4

check
check
Hero?

you have two super aggros and neither is betting. either they aren't aggro, they are trapping each other, or their view of you is someone who will spew.

i don't like this at all so I think checking is better because the lowest range hands that call are Ax which is chopping and since they are crazy aggro, they can easily raise to knock you off a chop.

Weird with both aggro villains calling turn and checking river. I think I check behind here. You have to figure to be chopping the pot with one of these two most of the time and the other either has a weak hand he can easily fold or is trapping with a straight or better. You are rarely losing when both check the river, but because you have to expect to be chopping this most of the time the risk/reward ratio is bad.

prefer 40 flop

Prefer not raising or even playing this hand in MP with two loose callers in the blinds (meaning we can't take their blinds) who are super agro post (meaning we'll have a tough time winning post flop with a hand that has poor playability).

As played, check riv and be grateful we didn't get c/r OTT or bet into OTR.

check river. they not folding an A and we chop or lose to all A.

Sometimes I make a bet in this spot, then realize WTF was I doing?

Am I trying to get a chop to fold here? Is that even realistic?

Am I going to get paid by 10J or Q10?

If you think you can do that then bet.

Stack sizes are imperative. I'll assume 100bb ($300).

Not sure I'm in love with bloating the pot with ATo in MP in what will end up being a multiway pot with some very aggro guys in the hand. Although we will have position on the two loose / aggro guys and it would be nice to isolate them. Preflop is really dependent on stack sizes for me on whether I'm raising and to how much. If we're in early MP, I dump ATo a lot, especially at difficult tables. Depending on how aggro these guys are pre and what are stacks are, you could also argue for a limp/reraise (especially if that sets up a flop shove).

In multiway pots I'd typically bet the flop for protection here as the combined outs against us are probably pretty decent. I don't hate a weak check back to setup bluff catchers against the aggro guys (plus we won't feel comfortable folding to a check/raise against them), so I don't hate a check (especially if we feel we're getting into commitment territory with a bet).

I also bet the turn.

Does a worse hand really call a river bet (noting that we are chopping with any Ax)? And if anyone is capable of attempting to blow us off a chop with a scary check/raise, it's these guys. I'd check behind.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Given reads/dynamics I'm probably just folding pre. As played I don't mind checking flop and opting for a more passive line vs these two here. However I'm surprised people are mentioning chops. Given the "aggro" descriptions I'd expect one or both villains to raise turn with Ax or trips+. Checking river is fine, but we could probably get away with betting really small like $50. Villians are likely extremely poor players and one or both of them may try to bluff catch with pairs.

Forgot to mention stacks are ~100bb eff

Against this line-up I fold ATo from MP. As played, just check river. I'm not sure what betting accomplishes? What better is folding? What worse is calling? And we cannot handle a raise.

To everyone advocating a fold pre; what is out or opening range from MP/LP with this lineup?

Probably pretty close in MP/LP. I might go ATs from LP, but probably sticking with AQs and maybe AJs+ from MP, maybe 99+ from LP.

Depending on the 3betting frequency, I might mix it up a bit LP with 9Ts, etc., and sometimes suited one gappers, but I'd need to know my villains pretty well. Can be fun to catch really aggressive players like this with those hands.

PF OK to ISO
Bet Flop
CK turn
Ck (or call River)

If you bet river, it's to fold out a chop. Don't see how you're ever getting called by worse. PF is absolutely mandatory with 2 spots in the blinds. I probably don't bet turn and try to collect a river bet from random bluffs.

haha please tell me you are trolling

+1
folding AT with two likely very weak players who are likely to spew? crazy talk...
flop both betting and checking are fine imo
agree with turn as well

Can villains turn pairs into bluffs to fold you off a better hand or are they blindly aggressive?....If they are level one thinkers then bet/fold the river ( i prefer small) if they are level two then it becomes a bit trickier, but id prefer a check.

Preflop would be fine if we had a chance at isolating someone at this table.

Ginsteadwewent4waytotheflop,inabloatedpot,withameh hand,againstdifficultopponents;blech,imoG

+1

However I doubt they're even remotely solid if they're playing 90% of hands.

Side note: I know OP describes both villains as really aggro but this hand contradicts that read at least a little. Obviously it's only a single hand but this flop/run out is a great opportunity for either villain to try to rep big hands, yet both of them take ultra passive lines. This is why I prefer betting to x/bluff catching in this spot. Villains haven't bet or raised a single time in this hand. It'd be pretty unlikely for them to suddenly get frisky and turn medium pairs into bluffs on the river when they could just check back and go to showdown. IMO it's more likely they make a poor call if we bet small.

Pre is fine.
B/f flop (~50)
Check turn
Soulread/bluff catch river

As played, I probably b/f 80-100 on the river.

Something's off with this hand. Both villains are described as aggro and super aggro post flop, but they've checked twice. IMO, they've either given up on the hand or aren't as aggro as you think.

I don't understand folding AT in this spot especially if we can get position on what sounds like two pretty fishy players with what is likely the best hand preflop.

Anyways I like the line so far and would definitely check back river seems too thin to value bet here

What part of my post would be a troll? Your post adds no value to this thread.

People do realize we chop w/ any Ax hand on the river, right? What worse hands do we expect to get called by here on the river, especially vs. two players described as aggro post-flop? It's not like these guys are loose-passives who will c/c this river with Tx.

What difficult players? Those two sound like total donks. I like having position, initiative and a hand as beautifup as ATo vs 100vpip clowns like these

These two are both described as super aggro postflop. Yes, we'll have position on them. But initiative ain't going to be all that useful when my guess is they won't be exactly fit/fold postflop and we're going to whiff most flops ourselves. And I'm guessing we also get in tricky spots for stacks with second pair a lot too. Plus we're still just in MP; half the table (including these guys) can still easily wake up with a dominating (or flop reverse dominating) hand. We build a bloated pot to be stolen from us / gross situations for stacks *a lot* here, imo.

Course, if we hit TP, then easy peasy, so that admittedly might make up for the other times.

GnitG