1/3 NL - Hero in BB has around $350, V UTG+1 around $250, pretty aggressive.

V opens to $10, few callers, Hero calls to close action with 9s8h.

($40) 7c 10c Ad

Hero donk-bets $20. V calls. Everyone else folds.

($80) Js

Hero bets $40. V jams for $150 more.

Is Hero's straight good enough?

AT/AJ and any of the sets might play this way. We can't only call with the nuts, and the jam is only for $110 more in a pot of $160.

Easy call.

flop play is a pretty big mistake imo. also I presume by "a few" you actually mean "a couple" based on pot size.

Actually the jam was $160 more (total $200), but I agree with the conclusion.

The KQ cooler was absolutely in his range and I don't block any of them, but then again so were 77, TT, Ax, JT.

Yes, and I agree in retrospect should have been a check/call on the flop, but wanted to build the pot in case the straight hit on later streets.

Preflop is meh. We're getting a good price closing the action, but we'll also be OOP the rest of the hand (making IO versus RIO very difficult to deal with). The more moronic the table is compared to us the more I'm ok with it, but otherwise meh.

I check the flop and see what happens. Thanks to being OOP we really have no idea how others feel about this flop, so I don't think we should be donking here with no info and just hoping for the best. We also have no idea how many of our outs are good thanks to the flush draw being on board. And in general people like to play Ax, which should plummet our FE.

I'm betting a lot more on the turn because there is a decent chance Villain has made a big hand (two pear+ is fairly likely on this board) plus there are a crapload of scare cards which could kill our river action. I'm fistpumping calling the jam at this stack size against this villain on this board texture.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I think this is a pretty poor reason for betting in this case.

First, the SPR is 6 against the Villain. We shouldn't have much problem getting in stacks by the river if anyone bets the flop.

Second, we're behind and and at best have 8 outs to improve to the next street (a ~5:1 dog) and at worst might only have 3 outs to improve to the next street (a ~14:1 dog). We'd rather not put in money when we have the worst of it. To think of it another way, switch seats with your opponent (and now lets say we're the ones sitting with TP); we'd bet our TP for value to make straight draws incorrectly pay to chase, right?

Third, getting raised is a disaster, cuz now we'll have to fold having putting in more money while not even realizing our equity.

The biggest reason to bet here is to fold out better hands and steal the pot. But on boards like this (where commonly in-play Ax ain't folding to the first bet and other draws could easily continue) and OOP not knowing who is interested, it's an overly speculative gamble, imo. If we hadda had position and it was checked thru to us on the Button (especially the others checking after the preflop raiser checked) then a bet here would make a lot more sense, as much less likely anyone has Ax or a flush draw (which we may even want to rep); but OOP, meh.

GimoG

2nd nuts is 2nd nuts. Hope it didn't take you too long to call.

Yes, it does seem likely the villain is playing fruit

I agree with GG, with the exception of sometimes donking the flop to build a pot. This spot is mostly a c/c, but mixing it up every now and again with people you've played with a while can be a good thing. It also changes the range your villain is going to put you on, not that it seems to matter in this spot.

Agree completely. Never said it was a good play or a good rationale.

No worries; just giving my reasoning and things for you to consider / think about.

Ggoodluck!G

To kill the suspense:

- Hero calls after thinking it over for maybe 20-30 seconds
- Villain says "I just have a jack" (KJ -- 2nd pair, gut shot, no flush draw)
- Hero is stunned, fades the queen, wins big pot

I just think we can select better donking spots. If the flop was T74r I'd be cooler with it as our FE is just so much higher.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Except that I was talking about building a pot and you're talking about FE. With 3 players behind, I want someone with an A, or some other weak connection to call.

Just to be clear, this is a sometimes play, not an every time play and when I feel it's likely to get more than one call. Also, I wouldn't be betting 1/2 pot ($20 in this case), but $10, or $15, depending on how loose I think the table is.

Fair enough, although even for building-pot-purposes I would much rather have a rainbow flop when I have an OESD.

GcluelessNLnoobG

True, but not100% required. What this really comes down to is an in-game judgment call. Once you've learned the different options available, choosing the best action for that spot is situational. Even if we could put everything in a post, it would end up as a TLDR.

But then, I play largely by feel, which is tough translating to the forum.