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Hero - K K Small Blind

Villian BB - just sat down. First or 2nd hand

UTG+2 and Cutoff call. I raise to 16. BB calls and UTG+2, HJ, Cutoff Call.

Pot - 80
Flop: 8-8-5r

I bet 50. BB calls. UTG+2 calls. Rest fold

Pot 180
Turn- 9 2 hearts on the board

I check. BB goes all in for 135. UTG+2 folds

Hero?

Ugh. Pre is small in my game, but if you expected only one or two callers, it's fine -- just unlucky that you got four!

Turn is a soul read. Against an average/unkown villain, it's a fold, but it's hard to fold KK in game.

What type of vibe does villain give off?

Thanks for your response.

Im not a big fan of basing decisions off reads. Yes with multiple limpers probably shouldve made it 20-25 especially OOP. Agree there.

Without any reads I guess the question is am I good 30% of the time (call 135 in a pot of 325) against this persons range to call the all-in.

Didnt have a chance to plug in an equity calculator yet. (Am I properly analyzing this hand?)

Pre I'm going a bit bigger.

On this flop you can go smaller, 30-50% of pot. Dry paired board multi-way. We want to encourage overs to call and catch up on turn or river. May also get a few more 5x to call.

Bigger pf.

Too big on the flop.

Turn is an easy call.

Thanks for reply. Any thoughts on turn call or fold?

Preflop sizing really depends on stack sizes. I usually attempt to get in 10% of stacks preflop with big pairs to setup trivially profitable stackoff spots postflop. Looks like we haven't quite done that against the BB's $200 stack, but it's unclear what the other stack sizes are. But it also looks like there are 3 limpers to us and we'll be OOP; unless stacks are huge, I'm raising to $20 - $25 every time here; $16 is just way too small.

Preflop has also setup a pretty stoopid spot; OOP, very multiway, a very small SPR where we have zero room to move and mostly just have to hurp durp our stack in postflop, but all the while giving 4 opponents likely fairly awesome IO.

It's a real stoopid spot on the turn cuz we have so little stack left and really shouldn't be folding, but on this card (completes OESD) to this action on this flop (dude is betting into guy behind him that could easily have an 8 but he doesn't care, plus it looks like we have exactly what we have), we can probably find a very exploitable (that ain't being exploited) dumb fold.

Gsetupbetterspots,imoG

Really? It's a wonderful skill to have. It's how I make a lot of my money.

If you use only math and no reads, you don't need our opinions (Of course, you don't have a range, because you don't use reads, so not sure you can even make a decision.)

I started off as a soul reader so I can't really discount it completely.

But I think having a sound overall strategy will often put you in a spot where the decision is pretty clear regardless.

Also depends on villain. Some are easier to read than others and it can certainly be a useful piece of the puzzle you can use to make your decision.

I wouldn't rely on it solely however.

Of course not, but this is an unknown. If he looks like an OMC, I fold immediately. If he looks like a gamble-y Asian just over from the baccarat tables, I snap. There is a lot in between, but a basic read is helpful -- especially when you want to "range" him and base your decision off of that

Thanks for all the input guys. One other question involving the hand.

I have a king of hearts here so my logic is im blocking flush draws he could be bluffing with. If I dont have a king of hearts Im snap calling.

Am i wrong to be thinking about "blockers" in this way?

When it's bd it's a little less relevant, but yeah it's a common way people split off their calling ranges.

Its ~ok to be thinking about blockers in this way although you have to give them the appropriate weight. The fact that he's jamming on a paired board when the OESD got there with another person still in the hand that could easily be sitting there with trips probably trumps whatever relevance you give to having the second nut flush blocker (noting that the relevance of flush blockers plummet as they get smaller, ex: there would be little difference between having red pocket tens versus black pocket tens here). Also keep in mind that there are very few flush draw hands that should be able to get to the turn as the first caller of the flop bet in a multiway pot (noting that Axhh / Kxhh can almost never get here unless they are like A5hh / K5hh). So all told in this case, whether we have the Kh or not shouldn't really be raking that far up in our decision making (if at all).

GcluelessweightingnoobG

Grunch - pretty easy call on the turn. Don’t love the spot but folding against all but the nuttiest part of the V spectrum.

+1