Hero: ($300) Upper 20's. I have an aggressive image, lost one buy in so far with flush over flush, overall I haven't been too active this session though.

Villain1: ($500) Mid 20's. Been drinking for the last few hours. Very laggy. Seen him call raises with T6o and just do a bunch of random stuff.

Villain2: ($600) Low 20s. Typical loose/passive player.

Hero opens to $15 UTG with AQ MP calls (good TAG), Villain1(CO) makes it $50. Villain2(Button) calls $15 not seeing the $50. He then puts in $35 more.

I know for a fact Villain2 wasn't angling, and probably has a medium strength hand at best. MP would have 3bet me if he had a great hand, so really it comes down to Villain1's range in my mind.

Hero???

Given opponents described above, can I profitability shove here or am I too deep to be 4-betting 100bb with AQss?

If not, is there a better line to take? If I just call, I'll have an SPR < 2, or close to 1 if MP calls as well and I don't really like 4b/f given stack sizes.

Shoving with Ace-high? Talk about spew...Oh, wait, they're sooted ...

Apparently you don't watch WPT, or you'd know that AQ is a huge bust-out hand. I've open-folded AQ from EP a few times and didn't regret it.

As played, call the 50 and expect to check-fold most flops.

That's not a squeeze...

I can muck AQ easily to 3bets as well, I was just curious if the dynamics make it go from fold or call to raise for value in this specific spot.

Am I missing something here? How is this not this the easiest jam ever?

Value? What worse hand is going to 3bet you then call your 4bet?

Also, remember this isn't a tournament. Getting it all in pre against a pp less than QQ for a race is acceptable strat in a tourney, but you aren't going to play cash games for long doing that.

Reads on vil's calling range != reads on vil's 3b range

Since v2 has juiced the pot, I agree that this is worth a tepid call.

True in general of course, but is a distinction all that necessary in this case? He is almost certainly drunk.

I feel like this thread is one big level by the responses given, don't think it's bad at all unless guy who 3bet is real tight, you're gonna be called with better sometimes, but I'd imagine unless he's super tight you have 30% equity plus with all the dead money and FE...prolly worth it, but you gotta figure out if this guys only 3betting aces or if he's doing it with worse, live games are silly sometimes with people really only 3betting aces or kings.

Edit: I think calling 3bet is worst of 3 choices, folding, shipping or calling

Do you have any reads on V1 3b range? Is this the first time you've seen him 3b tonight? If not what happened in the other hands etc...

As played I think it's pretty close...

If doing a bunch of random stuff includes random raises/3b pf then based on your reads on villains and MP I think you could still be ahead of both V1 3b range as well as V2 3b calling range. The problem is you are out of position so the hand is going to be hard to play post flop. If you're not ready to get it in when facing aggression on an A high board then calling here is burning money IMO.

Personally I'd fold but if you called depending on how reliable your reads are I don't think its that bad. Being out of position is just too big a disadvantage here IMO.

Also, never ship.

True, I don't see anyone calling a 4bet with a hand that I beat. I meant more to say given the dead money, can I raise to pick the pot up with fold equity and if called (assuming a JJ+, AK calling range...which I think is a tight calling range for this specific guy who has been drinking lots) I have 33% equity. I need 43% equity in this specific spot if I shove and get called.

With the dead 130 in the pot already, wouldn't he would have to call a decent amount of time to make this -EV? Maybe I am playing too many tournaments lately to have this thought process pre-flop in this cash game.

If we are ahead of their ranges, why on earth would we not ship?

No, I should have specified that when I said he is playing very aggressive.

He 3 bet a LP open in the SB and took it down a few orbits ago. A few orbits before that he made it $65 after an open of $15 and a call on the button. Both folded, so while he has been doing it, I can't say if he has been light in any of those spots yet.

If you are under the impression it's bad if he has jacks, and flipping with dead money in pot in a cash games is bad, I think you have to re-evaluate things, If you think flipping in cash games is bad in general is bad, you need to re-evaluate things, If you ever open fold AQ, I don't see how you could possibly be a winning player in live low stakes cash games.

I can see moving in or just calling, but if I thought my read on v1 and v2, plus v2 thinks its only $15 and has to put $35 more in, so he ain't got a great hand. V1 is in co spot so he does'nt have to have a strong hand. I'd have more of of tendency to call the $35 raise out of respect for the mp caller who you describe as tight aggressive, who may be trying to limp a monster pair. That would prob be my reason for just calling the raise. If mp solid player was'nt in the hand, I might move all in. Under the situation, I just call the raise, but I ain't too keen on the idea of playing AQ from utg, even if it is suited IMO. Gl

Being ahead of their 3b range does not equal being ahead of their 4b AI calling range....

4bet shipping folds out all the entirety of their range that you are ahead of and you are only getting called when you are crushed QQ+, AK. Even people who do "random crap" and are "typical loose passive" tend to straighten out pretty quick facing a 4b AI.

@Walter1

Yah never open fold AQ at low stakes live....derp.

all drunk means is that he is playing differently

doesn't necessarily mean that he is spewing in exactly the way that would be most beneficial to us in this specific situation

Cuz this is 1/3 live and not .25./50 6max.

Call planning to c/f most flops>>fold>>>>>(lightyears)>>>AI

Lol, since I mentioned it (and got few responses), I'll elaborate: I've only open-folded AQ twice, but they were in tourneys, not cash games.

My point wasn't that AQ is bad or unlucky, it's just that it's so sexy that it's easy to over-value.

And yeah, I do think flipping with ace-high is bad in a cash game. I've read several books, I'm on 2+2 allot...I feel this gives me a bit of an edge vs. most random opponents. So if I feel I have an edge, why the Hell would I put my BI at risk on a coin-flip when I'm almost sure to be behind going in? Oh, yeah, the dead money

i've open folded KK in cash games lol
i think you're too loose, at least for 1/2

V1 3 bet range. have you seen him 3 bet wide ranges vs utg raiser who raised 5x? many guys are loosy agro for opening raises but much tighter when 3 betting serious money. How wide you think his 3 bet is (and the justification for that thought) is up in the air still.

If you have seen him 3 bet marginal hands like AJs AQo KQs etc, then stuff it in the middle. Do not 4 bet and give him the opp to shove, just shove. Taht would be over $100 dead money in the pot, and i would want it.

If you dont know the villains 3 bet range at all, then just fold and move on. the AQs here could be ahead of "gambly" villains, but dont take the agro route for any reason other than a valid one.

1/3 live.

Learn chat and play with the pros

If we jam and get it in vs V1 then we are 285 to win 665 or thereabouts. We need 40-45% equity to make putting it in equal to folding.

AdQd 40.82%
TT+, AQ+ 59.18%

So if he 3 bets you - and folds any of this range then the jam is good. Otherwise its not. If he's at all tighter in 3-bet pots like people have suggested then it's pretty ****ing horrible.

That said i'm calling pre not folding.

This seems a bit confused. If we think we are ahead here, the reason we ship is to take the money in the pot and avoid having to go 4 ways OOP with (what I consider to be) a pretty strong hand in this spot.

Sometimes we'll get called here by JJ and thats fine too...

Its also mentioned that he's been lag, not just calling a lot of weirdness.