No, a "standard" player at LLSNL tends to call more than bet/raise, and generally doesn't bluff c/r on the turn.

Threads based on lol live reads don't tend to be good threads.

Next time just post this in the BBV thread.

I'm sorry your mad and that you feel that your thoughts are concrete and are spot on to my situation. my post is fine here I got good feed back and actually found out what I could have done better in the hand.

clearly disregarding my read and snap folding the turn would have been the quickest way to burn my money I put into that pot while simotaniously missing out on a complete double up all while probably making me look like a maniac because I'm firing away and a get c/r and I auto dump it

No, we just get a few veiled brags like this every day. Asking for advice based on "live reads" is fairly pointless in an online setting. In reality, you are being quite results oriented and I doubt we are reading about this hand if villain has 55.

notice I asked about the turn only -___- I didn't even say what happened or what I did. it's a live stakes thread I'm pretty sure if you don't have knowledge on live reads and live players you can't really say anything. no I'm not saying u im speaking in general

The point is no one can give advice based on your "read." Those are often villain dependent and should be based on knowledge gathered through observation over a period of time. Anyone reading your posts could pretty easily pick up that you were going to call, and that villain was going to show up with a busted draw.

I would be *shocked* if Man MBN was a winning player.

you don't need a read to simply give an opinion on his line.. I gave a decent discription enough of one to make assumptions.. if u think he's got me beat here most of that time ok that's your opinion that's what I asked for. idk why everyone on this site wants to make people look like idiots and they have to be 100% right it's pretty amusing some of the things I read.

well go stick a fork in a power outlet.

I bet this turn with my whole range, no way I'm going for less than two streets of value.

Do you guys really think river is a better spot to get value?
I think he tank/folds Tx there just as often - only reason I'd check back is to induce a bluff.

Finally someone who is semi-same-paging it i really cant comprehend why everyone thinks he is just so NUTTED here on the turn all because he flats a dry flop and now check raises our second barrel?

Again, because at live low stakes that is a strong line that will be a strong hand a high % of the time.
Checking the turn and taking a bluff catching line makes sense here.

Ask yourself this...if LLSNL villains like yourself are willing to get stacks in with KK here, doesn't that explain why your villain would take such a line?

Biggest leak of LLSNL players: calling too much.

In different instances yes that can be true this line is usually strong. But the fact that hes not a horrible player and that flatting out of the BB with A10 or A9 or Ax are almost completely out of his range here because those are horrible calls i dont feel this player or most decent players will be making. So hands that beat me are less and less likely only sets which are hard to make and why act so quickly which i mentioned as well..

its not that im calling too much im just not folding too much just because im raised or bet into. a perceived strong line doesnt mean that im beat.. like your saying about Low Stakes Players a lot of them may think that Q10 is he a check raising hand here.

i think it was more of this player being a pretty basic standard player at these levels but hes one of those guys that does "TRY" to mix it up.. he can 3 barrel he can bluff hes read some books and articles and took things way to literal. he saw dwan do it on poker after dark and likes to try "his moves"

Why are you reading this out loud?

Can not see anything but folding here...

Keep folding when you get raised you'll do great! please come to my table

I skimmed villain description so didn't realize he had shown bluffs. Very few llsnl players bluff enough to make bluffcatching possible.

Anyway, if I'd been super active I fire turn and otherwise this sounds like a good spot to check turn actually, against one of the few.

As played, fold. Sizing seems strong.

Again, you refer to him as "standard nothing special" but the description you give is not standard.

If you start your description with "described villain can get aggressive at times with 3 barreling and is capable of making moves / trying to fold out better hands/bluffing with equity" you would be getting different advice - at least to some degree. I would still advocate checking the turn and playing bluff catcher on the river, as we don't want to force ourselves into a guessing game for stacks against someone we can profitably bluff catch on the river a significant % of the time.

Also, a "standard" LLSNL player will certainly call with A9-A10 from the BB and you should GFTO out of any game where the majority don't.

Finally, the player you described could easily show up with a weird A-x here - always be wary of the V "bluffing with the better hand" - which again is why we check back to avoid playing for stacks there in a thin spot. Oh, and your villain is terrible, not decent.

right I agree checking back the turn is better, clearly folding 100% here is wrong.. his range isn't nuts and nuts only.. we are a able to call some of the time even if the % is small it still counts.

ok sorry that we disagree on what the definition of a standard low stakes no limit player is.. didn't know there was a poker player description dictionary

Id check back turn and call a reasonable river bet and if checked to on the river, depending on the board bet/fold to get value from 10x. As played.... good read and nice call.

You ARE good here as played a non-zero % of the time. The question then becomes how often, and how often the villain here must be bluffing for your call to be correct.

If you were to poll this forum, you would find my assessment of what describes a "standard" villain matches with the majority here, and it is why so many believe your villain can have a big hand here.

lol well I did call and I called his shove on the river and he mucked so I can't agree there either that 100% I'm beat. thanks though

I'm not too worried about what "the community" believes a standard player to be lol