1/3 LIVE NL

My opponent this hand is a pretty standard player i dont see anything special coming from him, he's been folding plenty of hands but when you is the aggressor he usually goes for gusto ( capable of 3barreling air ), i also saw him get caught earlier in the night in a pretty nice sized pot where he showed down no pair no draw on the river.

My Image is pretty LAG but a respectable lag, im being relentless but not reckless im straddling and opening pots that im playing but im not showing my cards very often and when i do i have a good hand to show the table.

3 limpers and a few folds to me in the c/o with KK i raise to $18 btn+sb fold BB calls and the limpers fold.

ME $250 stack BB $300 stack

Flop 1095

BB checks, I bet $27, he calls

Turn A

BB checks i bet $45 (as soon as i put 6 red chips across the line he announces $100 and puts in a 20 stack of red.)

First question what do you do here? Fold/Call/Ship and why?

"My Thoughts" the insta raise to 100 seems really weak and also weird/bad to me. Although it is a 1/3 game i still expect at least a little thought or hollywood or something before just check raising. What hands actually make sense for this line? A10suited A9suited 1010 99 55is pretty fishy at this level of play i dont feel players are check calling (floating) with A high oop and then insta raising the turn when they hit it to top it off. I felt QJ KQ KJ are most likely maybe a weirdly played k10 or JJ QQ sort of spazzing out here on me..

I feel given my read and how stronger hands dont really make sense to me to be played in this fashion and acted on so quickly i felt that calling/shipping is are my two best options. I felt by calling i allow hands to stay in that im either crushing that hes betting for value or hands that he is bluffing with and may continue to bluff with on the river.
Moving all in i feel im only getting called by better hands while at the same time folding out all his bluffs and lesser value hands.

Its a smaller game with not very good players in it but im interested to see how you guys react in this spot and what your thoughts are on the situation.

When pretty standard players c/c c/r the turn, I "strongly re evaluate" my one pair hand. Even if he is bluffing you, his bluffing frequency is probably not that high and in a vacuum, it's a good fold. Yes, he could be bluffing a nonsense board, but he probably beats KK more often than that. Fold, store it away in the memory banks, and gt a more definitive read. The Ace may have been a really good card for you.

What hands were you trying to get value from ott? Or were you turning KK into a bluff? With the lack of a fd, I'd probably check back the turn and try to get river value from Tx.

Well yeah calling i guess is sort of "Heroy" its just weird though its one of those i know that he knows that the ace is a really good bluff card. and the insta raise like literally no time went off of his time bank before he raised me i found it to be a clear live tell, i put myself in his shoes and if was trapping on the flop or improved on the turn im either check calling the turn as well or if im check raising im never insta doing it lol..

Well im definitely not bluffing with it but i dont mind a check back on the turn either sort of a pot controlish check back. at the same time i am going to get value from hands im putting him on the 2 overs + gutshot or open ended straight draw of which i have two of the outs for and i also have a lagish image here he may call the turn with 10X (he knows i know if im bluffing the A on the turn is a perfect card to continue with another barrel)

Snap fold the turn. Until proven otherwise via reads, turn c/r's at LLSNL are weighted towards nutted hands, in this case sets, AT and A9.

Also, definitely check back the turn, you're never getting 3 streets of value here after the A falls and probably rarely getting 2. If he knows that you know that the A on the turn is a good barrel card then that's one thing, but that requires substantial history and it doesn't seem like you have that with villain.

I would definitely check back the turn here against a straight forward opponent. If he checks turn and river, I can put in a value bet on the river.

snap fold the turn really.. just disregard my read and simply muck because i was check raised. maybeee think about it and fold if thats what you choose to do i dont think im ever snap folding here.

not that this was the case it could have been who knows but i actually see LLSNL players check calling the flop because they feel they are simply check calling a continuation bet and then either leading the turn big or check raising the turn as a bluff or semi bluff to try and end matters vs a hand thats just cbetting again or if the bettor calls they have outs if semi bluffing

a9 is a pretty loose loose call out of the BB pf a10 isnt too much ahead of it either with 3 utgish limpers to act after him

yeah i kinda feel like a check back on the turn is a nicer player as well. i still get bluffs to fire rivers at me etc all while controlling the pot and getting to decide on the river in position if he leads or does whatever he does

Not the same person.

Fold.

Insta raise here seems like he was dying to bet, wanted you to act first.

He has Ax most of the time.

Reading your sentences make me run short of breath.

Raise is different than check raising. Latter being a lot stronger. You said he's 3 barreled before, but has he ever done something similar when someone else is leading the action every street?

Have you seen him min-raise bluff before?
How does he bet for value? Does he raise on a dry board like this?
You should've checked IP. But as played, I wouldn't feel good about kings. If i'm being fishy I would call his raise for 55 more then re-eval river. If I don't want to face a value bet on the river I would just fold then.

Should've checked back turn. Fold now. Oh and his line does make sense for A9, AT, 55, and 99 most likely.

I would be checking back turn a lot of the time. As played fold.

it's pretty weird idk how everyone is telling me he's so nutted here.. how do u think he's playing qj here? check call check call brick river check fold? that's pretty horrid.. honestly giving him too much credit like people never check raise bluff/ semi-bluff.

I agree checking back the turn is my best option. but snap folding never is. I'm not sayin g I can never fold it but snap fold is pretty extreme.


if he's flatting from the bb with a9 and a10 then he's not the player in describing I would have said he was a mega fish who defends lightly.

I don't feel that knowing aces are good bluff cards on dry boards makes u such a high level thinker.. it's pretty basic knowledge IMO

This is a snap fold in this situation because of your (lack of a) read on this opponent. A "pretty standard" player is not leveling you with his Tx, QJ, KJ, whatever you think he might have. A pretty standard player is nutted. That said, this player could be doing that because he's NOT a pretty standard player like you initially thought, in which case you have to reevaluate your read on him. Right now it's not worth $55 and the last $105 on the river to find out about it. Just file this hand away and keep watching him.

This is EXACTLY how he would play it.

You're just giving fish way too much credit. Guys might just bluff once every ten times they miss, but they don't care what the board texture is. If the worst guys in you're game are on the lookout for good bluff cards to c/r ott because they know you know a turn c/r is indicative of a massive hand then you might as well play 5/10. Most guys at 2/5 definitely aren't there yet, 5/10 probably wouldn't be too much of a difference.

well I can't agree.. sometimes vs some players it's sometimes a fold.. your basically telling me everytime a scare card hits the turn and I get check raised I'm supposed to fold.. that's pretty terrible poker and a very expoitable leak.

"scare cards are good bluff cards" is in bluffing 101 man lol..

that's a pretty terrible way for someone to play here.. if their money cards hit they are obvious action killers... a c/r is a decent play to rep the ace while at the same time getting money in before their obvious card hits and stop me from putting money in

It's really not in most LLSNL games against 90% of the player pool.

Obviously you want us to tell you to call here, and you keep changing the read on the villain to justify that action. So call if it makes you feel good.

In reality, the line taken by this villain makes sense in a lot of ways, and the majority of the time at these stakes 2nd pair will not be any good. Will there be cases it is? Certainly. However, when we are against a villain who is capable of putting us in spots where we may need to bluff catch for stacks, we will often be better off to check back the flop and let him bluff the river where we can bluff catch more profitably against his range.

If you were to fold every time you faced a c/r on the turn at low stakes, you would not be making a major mistake. If you were to call with 2nd pair against a turn c/r in low stakes simply 25% of the time, you would likely be bleeding massive amounts of chips.

And it is exactly how 90% of the player pool will play QJ. If they do raise it, it will be on the flop more than the turn, and generally not when a card that hits your range as a PFR hits the board.

actually I agreed in early messages that checking back the turn is my best play here. and no im not changing my reads I guess we all just have different opinions of what a standard player is these days.. you guys think standard means a mindless bot clicking buttons at the table.

I went with my read and that his line wasn't making sense to me in this instance and how he acted way way way too fast.. if he takes a few second and check raises me it's a different story but my read was telling me otherwise.


I thought for a minute and called the turn, 3 on the river he shoves I call he says good call you got it and starts complaining that I can't let go.